Geomancer: Findings and Mechanics *Needs More Handbells!*

[Delekii]

http://i.imgur.com/3xLjtNS.png

Crappy paint job.

Each numbered arrow around the player's dot is the direction you're facing, and a different effect.

You are speaking very matter-of-factly, but are you actually in game? Because your understanding of the ability is not what is inferred by the wording in the update notes, and I'm pretty sure that SE hasn't given any good explanation of the ability.

* The direction is determined by where the target is located relative to the caster and when the elemental magic spell actually lands on the target.

What this means, when taken literally, is that if the target is north of the caster, east, south, west of the caster, then a different result will occur. There is no mention of caster facing direction, or in fact direction at all. The specific words used are where the target is _located_ relative to the caster. To continue your paint job:

http://i46.tinypic.com/rm8t9x.jpg

The two most obvious candidates for me as to how it might work are either that:
A. Each cardinal/intercardinal direction has an elemental affinity - for example, Light North, Dark South, Earth NE, Thunder SW, etc etc. If the mob is north of you while you cast banish, your spell is stronger.
B. Like someone mentioned above, some sort of interposing affect on MAB/MAcc, where North is higher MAB-strong, south is higher Macc-strong. This leads to much less variation though (you will almost always want to be in the same direction relative to the mob).

Or, maybe it's something totally different altogether!

[Byrthnoth]

Geo is on the magian staves.

Also, their spell MP costs are kind of ridiculously huge.

[ronin sparthos]

Geo is on the magian staves.

Also, their spell MP costs are kind of ridiculously huge.

Cool.

Balance for the spells being an AOE effect.

[Fwahm]

Didn't the stream that showcased Geomancer show the Ra spells being different just by the character rotating, and not changing their position in relation to the monster? A combination of that and the patch notes led me to that conclusion.

In addition, the Ra spells we have seen seem to be cast in an AoE centering on the caster. Thus, a casting direction only makes sense as the direction you are facing, and not the direction of you to the mob. I interpret the patch notes of saying the direction to the mob sets the base cardinal setup, not the effects of the spells.

[GeneJackit]

Geo is on the magian staves.

Also, their spell MP costs are kind of ridiculously huge.

what about clubs by chance?

[Uzor]

I'm assuming it's the direction you're facing rather than your location around the mob.

The last makes no sense at all.

I mean, it sounds more logical that the magnetic field would affect the results of your magic. You know, facing towards or away from North.

Either way, I'm curious whether it's a set bonus (either N or W, for example), or if the bonuses between the two gets mixed depending on your direction.

Ex:
N gives 10 m.att
W gives 10 m.crit
NW gives 5 m.att + 5 m.crit
NNW gives 8 m.att + 2 m.crit

Either way, I'm sure it'll be all figured out when GEO is actually released.

[LidenbokValour]

Any information of the quest to unlock GEO yet? Besides needing a petrified log and some homeland soil?

[Delekii]

Didn't the stream that showcased Geomancer show the Ra spells being different just by the character rotating, and not changing their position in relation to the monster? A combination of that and the patch notes led me to that conclusion.

In addition, the Ra spells we have seen seem to be cast in an AoE centering on the caster. Thus, a casting direction only makes sense as the direction you are facing, and not the direction of you to the mob. I interpret the patch notes of saying the direction to the mob sets the base cardinal setup, not the effects of the spells.

There's no such thing as setting "a base cardinal direction", you can't be "facing north" relative to another object. North is north is north.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ihEv...9btZCWOUG3kt_w is that the video you mean? That was the showing of ra magic, and no mention is made of cardinal chant at all.

[Fwahm]

That's not the video I was thinking of; I was thinking of one of the JP videos. I might have misremembered, I don't know.

Anyway, I know cardinal direction isn't the best word, but I couldn't think of a more suitable name. The base coordinate system, maybe. Anyway, the animation for the -Ra spells suggest they are AoEs centered on the caster. If so, then the direction to the mob in the spell's view would change as you turned, making a system based only on the cardinal direction the mob make no logical sense.

[ikariiiii]

In regards to direction, perhaps an addition can be made to the Distance plugin for windower, enabling our header to be listed as well? Seems like GEO could use something like that considering the mini-map is hidden when engaged.

[Delekii]

That's not the video I was thinking of; I was thinking of one of the JP videos. I might have misremembered, I don't know.

Anyway, I know cardinal direction isn't the best word, but I couldn't think of a more suitable name. The base coordinate system, maybe. Anyway, the animation for the -Ra spells suggest they are AoEs centered on the caster. If so, then the direction to the mob in the spell's view would change as you turned, making a system based only on the cardinal direction the mob make no logical sense.

Given the ability is called cardinal chant, any implementation of it that isn't somewhat based on cardinal directions would be somewhat confusing. And if it is true that it has nothing to do with mob location and is only based on the cardinal facing of the player, the specific description of the ability in the update notes makes no sense, since it states very clearly "mob location relative to the player".

Combining these two facts makes me believe that player facing cannot logically be the defining factor. Of course, I could be completely wrong and it could just be lost in translation, but the two above facts make it practically impossible that the direction, and not facing, to the mob must be involved if the translation isn't wrong.

And no, the cardinal direction to the mob does not change because you turn around. If you are standing north of me, you are standing north of me. It doesn't matter if I have my front, back or side to you, you are still north of me.

[Uzor]

Given the ability is called cardinal chant, any implementation of it that isn't somewhat based on cardinal directions would be somewhat confusing. And if it is true that it has nothing to do with mob location and is only based on the cardinal facing of the player, the specific description of the ability in the update notes makes no sense, since it states very clearly "mob location relative to the player".

Combining these two facts makes me believe that player facing cannot logically be the defining factor.

And no, the cardinal direction to the mob does not change because you turn around. If you are standing north of me, you are standing north of me. It doesn't matter if I have my front, back or side to you, you are still north of me.

Based on the update notes, it's far more logical that it depends on if you're standing to the north, west, south or east of the mob, rather than the effect depending on where you're facing and standing in regards to where the mob is standing or facing, or whatever the other crazy theory in this thread is.

Looking back to when GEO was first revealed, they did say it depends on where you're standing in regards to the mob. Eg: If you're standign to the north of the mob, you get a different effect than if you're standing to the south of the mob.

[Fwahm]

North, South, East, and West are not the only cardinal directions, though. A Cardinal Direction is just the label for the most important directions in a specified system. For example, X, Y, and Z are the cardinal directions of the three-dimensional coordinate plane. There's nothing saying that Cardinal Chant refers to NESW in particular.

If the coordinate system upon which the facing determines spell effect was based on your relation to the mob, then it would indeed satisfy both the radial implication of the -Ra spells, and the notes given in the patch (but since there's already a big mistranslation in the patch notes, we can't completely rely on the wording in somewhat complex mechanics like this).

[Delekii]

To further strengthen the argument, here is the original description of the ability:

CARDINAL CHANT
An indispensable part of any geomancer's arsenal, this job trait modifies the effects of elemental magic depending upon the direction in which those spells are cast.

I think a lot of people are confused by the bolded section as meaning that it matters what direction you are facing. But, again, your facing has no relevance to the direction of the spell. Think of throwing a basketball. If I am standing still and there is a basketball ring to the north of me, and I shoot a basket, I am throwing the ball north. If I turn to my left and hook the ball with my right hand to the basket, I am now throwing the ball to my left, but I am still throwing it north. If I turn another 90 degrees, so the ring is to my back, and I do an over-the-head shot, the ring is now behind me, but I am still throwing the ball north.

If you think of the spell as a projectile that follows a path from you (the caster) to the monster, that spell will always be following the same direction, regardless of facing. If you cast a spell on a mob to the north of you, you are casting that spell to the north.

To mean what you are implying, the description would need to say "depending upon the direction the caster is facing when casting the spell".

[Fwahm]

Normal, targeted spells can be thought of like that, but not -Ra spells.

-Ra spells are not projectiles; their animation (and the usage in the streams) indicates they are more like selective targeting bombs that you set off on yourself (radial AoE centered on the caster).

If you set off a bomb on yourself by holding it out in front of you and dropping it, and it hits something to the left of you, you didn't trigger it to your left, you triggered it in the direction you are facing.

[Delekii]

Normal, targeted spells can be thought of like that, but not -Ra spells.

-Ra spells are not projectiles; their animation (and the usage in the streams) indicates they are more like selective targeting bombs that you set off on yourself (radial AoE centered on the caster).

If you set off a bomb on yourself by holding it out in front of you and dropping it, and it hits something to the left of you, you didn't trigger it to your left, you triggered it in the direction you are facing.

That's not how aoe spells work. The graphic appears like that, but in reality the spell is resolved as just a number of single-target effects based on the targets they hit. Just because the effect expands outward in all directions doesn't mean that the effect of cardinal chant cannot be rationalised on a target by target basis; that infact makes it more interesting. The mob to your south might a weaker hit to the mob to your north.

Furthermore, the fact that the spells are player-centric forces the player to be closer to their desired target, and as we know from geometry, the closer you are to your target, the faster it is to change your relative location to that target in terms of cardinal direction (concentric circles are smallest at their base).

For a BLM standing at 20 yalms, changing a mob to your north into a mob to your south requires at minimum a 21 yalm walk. If you are standing in melee range, change your relative location from south to north may be as little as 2 yalms.

[nomad2637]

Think of it this way:

You stand in the middle of some monsters. Use a Watera.

North of mob (mob south of caster): MAB
South of mob (mob north of caster): MACC
East of mob (mob west of caster): Crit Rate
West of mob (mob east of caster): Spell Recast Reduction

Monster to the north resists less because it's north of the caster (caster is south of the monster). Caster's spell received MACC on this monster.
Monster to the south takes more damage because it's south of caster (caster is north of the monster). Caster's spell received MAB on this monster.
Monster to the west gets a critical hit because it's west of the caster (caster is east of the monster). Caster's spell received enhanced Crit Rate on this mosnter
Monster to the east more damage because it's east of the caster (caster is west of the monster). Caster's spell got a recast time reduction from this monster.

It's the monster's position in relation to yours, not the direction in which you face yourself. You can face south but the north monster is still to the north, the player is still south of the monster and therefore will get the MACC+.

Image from SE to prove:

[nomad2637]

Double post because of site traffic sorry.

[Ophannus]

GEO would have been awesome when Abyssea was popular for EXPing, what with fighting multiple mobs simultaneously and all, those Geo-Def Down AoE would have been awesome on Mandies in Tahrongi or Colibris in Mis Coast.

[Uzor]

Think of it this way:

You stand in the middle of some monsters. Use a Watera.

North:MAB
South:MACC
East:Crit Rate
West:Recast Reduction

Monster to the north takes more damage because it's north of caster. Caster's spell received MAB on this monster.
Monster to the south resists less because it's south of the caster. Caster's spell received MACC on this monster.
Monster to the east gets a critical hit because it's east of the caster. Caster's spell received enhanced Crit Rate on this mosnter
Monster to the west more damage because it's west of the caster. Caster's spell got a recast time reduction from this monster.

It's the monster's position in relation to yours, not the direction in which you face yourself. You can face south but the north monster is still north and therefore will get the MAB+.

Image from SE to prove:

Sould be the other way around. If the monster is south of you, it takes more damage. If it's north of you, you hve higher m.acc. Those boxes are where the player is casting from, with the mob in the middle.

And that's the picture I was talking of. And that should end the argument, as there's 2 official sources that state it's the mob's position in relation to you, and not the way you face.