Attack and Defence update

[dasva]

Yeah individual hits were never that bad compartively from them it was the hits plus moves or double moves or rediculous counter rate etc.

[Fwahm]

If you have Protect, and don't have Berserk/Last Resort/Counterstance/Defense down on, you should take exactly the same damage as pre-patch, except for when the mob crits. Mob crits basically cap-rammed their cratio before, so now they're a bigger boost.

[Obsidian]

Willing to bet most "boss" mobs will still be nearly capped. I was getting hit for 1500 Sulferous Breaths before the update.

[Fwahm]

Willing to bet most "boss" mobs will still be nearly capped. I was getting hit for 1500 Sulferous Breaths before the update.

Ig-Alima has 1059 attack, so without them getting a bonus to cRatio from level correction in Adoulin, big mobs like him shouldn't be capped.

[Byrthnoth]

Worst pre-update Sulfurous Breath I had was about 800 damage, but I wasn't using Counterstance or Berserk. If he could hit you for 1500 pre-update, he can probably hit you for ~3k now with Berserk/Counterstance.

[fattrav]

For early floor Salvage II, when my whm does not have much mp, does this mean defender + counterstance makes sense?

[RicFlair]

Haven't been playing because I've been pretty busy with work. Anyone been running to any problem where WHM gets hate too quickly because they had to cure bomb more with this increase damage? (Especially in situations that need a quick curaga) Wondering how much they adjusted enmity of HP healed, so I can see if healers can still play like they used to.

[Sechs]

If you have Protect, and don't have Berserk/Last Resort/Counterstance/Defense down on, you should take exactly the same damage as pre-patch, except for when the mob crits. Mob crits basically cap-rammed their cratio before, so now they're a bigger boost.

/sadface

Really, I still fail to see why they had to go that far with this patch... this all sounds so retarded, and no I'm not talking about Cstance/Zerk Monk, that had to be addressed somehow.
I don't mind making so real tanks become necessary again in end-game, but why did they have to break everything else?!

I want my toy back

[Obsidian]

Well, the Hydras really sting now, that's for sure.

[Khajit]

I'm starting to get scared.
How will this affect dynamis farming? EP mobs are low level, will we receive that much more damage now?
Was this change really that necessary? Couldn't they do it just for players and leave things as they were for mobs?

I mean, I can understand the higher goals of this change with end-game, making it scarier to leave DDs tping freely because they're not bothered about the damage received, making so jobs who Excel at defense can make a bigger difference in tanking compared to DDs, it's all good.
But in all the rest of the game? Lowmen content? Solo content? Old content? What's the pro of doing it there?

I hope people in this thread are just overestimating things by eyeballing >___>

Didn't affect my thf too much except for the 20 min TE this morning. The goddamn thing hit me for 500-600ish damage. I engaged the thing and went wtf when i was suddenly down to100 hp within seconds. If i hadn't been lucky enough to have 5 seconds on SA recast bully,and ~90tp when i engaged with a SA i'd have been dead before i could kill it off with a mercy stroke.

[mdkuser]

For early floor Salvage II, when my whm does not have much mp, does this mean defender + counterstance makes sense?

Counterstance+/NIN better for tanking, but you'll be fine with berzerk + War. If your WHM isnt well geared just sub RDM and convert.

[Vyvian]

Worst pre-update Sulfurous Breath I had was about 800 damage, but I wasn't using Counterstance or Berserk. If he could hit you for 1500 pre-update, he can probably hit you for ~3k now with Berserk/Counterstance.

My highest sulfurous breath was 1800 on mnk pre-update, if it's physical damage, it may have some small chance to triple attack or something to make the big spikes.. I'm honestly a little concerned about it as the cerberus is entirely too accurate to not CS.

I've been doing Arra II runs and I was playing with things, but not being able to CS loses a lot of time in lowmanning. I sadly found it faster to eat strong attack food like RCB and roll defender and CS together which seems to almost wash, or is closer to the "old value". Acrolith NM's Sinker Drill used to hit me while CSing for 700-900, now it hits for 1400, more if berserk is on, got 2 shotted by back to back tp when it started getting spammy with a rdm healer. I've gone to dropping CS and using berserk.

I'm not claiming my idea is the best, just trying to see how big a difference things made. Also it seems the defense reductions are additive before reducing (-50 + -25 = -75%). Did a SV Minne March on HQ boss, with protect V, my normal defense was around 800, cs/berserk put it at like 201.

[Obsidian]

Wouldn't be surprised if Counterstance still ignores all defense buffs aside from gear.

[Helel]

I didn't notice any difference (in terms of taking 'more' damage) doing salvage II. In fact, most of the mobs actually hit me for less. It was much easier super tanking gears + acroliths in SSRII. I'm guessing they must have lowered their attack some.

That said, when I got hit with aegis schism, the fomors were hitting me for 400+... I'm curious how much hydra hits for now.

[Jem]

In fairness, Aegis Schism has always been absolute rape. I can't remember the exact figure but it's a ludicrous amount of def down (90% maybe?). I remember even in V1 Salvage it sucked to have it on me when soloing.

[Obsidian]

Aye, Schism has always sucked balls. That and the defense down from Adamantoise mobs were the only defense down effects I ever bothered to erase.

[Byrthnoth]

Wouldn't be surprised if Counterstance still ignores all defense buffs aside from gear.

Nope. It is affected by Protect. I'm pretty sure. I tested it a little last night on MNK/WHM.

I just go DNC/NIN to Bhaflau and it's fine. Elegy lets me keep shadows up through most of his attacks. Also, Sulfurous Breath can be absorbed by 1 shadow, and sometimes it goes through 1 shadow and does almost normal damage, so I bet he can DA on it. I haven't paid really really close attention, but I don't think either of the Salvage Cerbs has TA.

[Vyvian]

Wouldn't be surprised if Counterstance still ignores all defense buffs aside from gear.

No, it definitely stacks with buffs now. Armor defense values, Protect V and Minne all resulted in higher after-CS defense values than without.

[Necromage]

On another note, I noticed an Easy Prey skele in Gustav Tunnel was hitting my SMN consistently for over 100 (80 broke stoneskin and then up to 148 before crits) damage per swing. I know SMN is squishy anyway, but that seemed abnormally high for a low end Easy Prey. I only have about 350 defense, which is obviously the culprit, but I was only getting hit by around 40-80 before the update. That damage seemingly (nearly) doubled. This seems really odd to me, not to mention concerning, because the patch notes lead me to believe we'd only be affected against mobs of a significantly higher level than ourselves.

A little late, but did you perhaps not have Signet on? I often forget about it.

[mdkuser]

Wouldn't be surprised if Counterstance still ignores all defense buffs aside from gear.

nah thats why CC+defense buff is absolutley amazing for supertanking now

wrong quote..