Companies downsizing hours to avoid Obama Care

[archibaldcrane]

Yes, but iirc if an employer offers a plan and they decline it, then uncle Sam won't help foot the bill on one the person attempts to get alone which might be better then the bare minimum plan.

Yes, that's true.

Plus there's also the idea of current full timers getting crappier benefits if they go the cheap route now all the part timers have to be paid for too, which might make that talent and skill go find a job elsewhere.

Why would the part-timers have to be paid for? I'm a little confused what you mean here.

[Salodin]

How would you feel as a manager or skilled laborer if your benefits were cut because of the cost of covering all these new part timers? I'd be upset and approach upper management for alterior compensation. If I didn't get that, I'd look for a job that compensated me closer to what I was getting before.

Not saying these new people don't deserve coverage, but the more I hear about it the more I dislike Obama care and wish it did more then what it did. Really don't think it goes far enough.

[Blubbartron]

How would you feel as a manager or skilled laborer if your benefits were cut because of the cost of covering all these new part timers? I'd be upset and approach upper management for alterior compensation. If I didn't get that, I'd look for a job that compensated me closer to what I was getting before.

Not saying these new people don't deserve coverage, but the more I hear about it the more I dislike Obama care and wish it did more then what it did. Really don't think it goes far enough.

Without a public option, it really didn't accomplish the reform that was necessary to dramatically improve healthcare costs and insurance coverage rates.

[Plow]

Without a public option, it really didn't accomplish the reform that was necessary to dramatically improve healthcare costs and insurance coverage rates.

The biggest problem is lack of communication.

I know that it saved me money because I have my own insurance, and they had to send me a check for the difference between what I was paying and the new requirements.


My friend that gets his political information from other construction workers in Kansas had no idea the new requirements for spending vs pricing existed. He had no idea that even though it was through his business, if they got money sent back the employer was required to either pay it to him or count it forward as payment for the future.


People think prices are just going to go up because they can; insurance providers are now required to put 80% of what they charge to actual medical expenses.

People think if their employers get a check back from it, they're just going to pocket it and never see it; they're required to use it for the employee's benefit.


The list goes on, but even the most basic, clear advantages people are getting from it aren't being discussed, so they have no idea.

[notorious bum]

A third of the health care dollar goes to advertising, profits, fat executive salaries, lobbying and the paperwork occasioned by thousands of insurers who make more money denying care than providing it.

Obamacare will not curb medical costs or stem the tide of bankruptcies caused by health care bills. It won't force most employers who now don't offer affordable coverage to offer it in the future, because the administration is allowing employers to write its enforcement regulations, and it will leave millions more, all poor and disproportionately people of color, uncovered altogether.

I don't believe they're required to do anything out of the ordinary, it's not too dissimilar from the laughable wallstreet regulation the way I see it.

[Plow]

A third of the health care dollar goes to advertising, profits, fat executive salaries, lobbying and the paperwork occasioned by thousands of insurers who make more money denying care than providing it.

Obamacare requires insurance companies to spend 80% of the money they get from premiums on actual healthcare.

If they're not spending that much, they're required to send out a fucking check for the difference.


Sorry for the vajraism, but I literally just pointed this out in the fucking post before that, and it was a post about how people think they have a clue when they really have no idea wtf the law does.

[mallister]

the end result is that they will charge more for the procedure and less for the overhead/admin they were bilking you for previously. time will tell of course, but working in the healthcare field, i'd have to say anyone thinking prices are going to go down from this thing is delusional.

[Plow]

the insurance companies are going to charge themselves more for procedures?


again, the problem here is that barely anybody knows what the fuck the law actually does but they all want to tell everybody the retarded shit they think will happen because they're clueless

[mallister]

oh, you.

[Plow]

Yes, me. This shit pisses me off.

Feel free to go ahead and explain the conspiracy you're expecting to happen in order to make that even a remotely legitimate argument in any way shape or form.

[mallister]

insurance companies and the hospitals they manage will just charge more for the actual procedures, instead of using flufffed up overhead/admin costs. your bill will simply read differently.

i'm not sure what about my statement was conspiracy theory fodder or exactly why you're foaming at the mouth, but, ok.

[Plow]

Insurance companies that get directly involved in the care, and hospitals that get involved in insurance *LOWER* the overall cost of health care because they seek to avoid having to deal with the massive costs that arise when people become extremely unhealthy, via preventative care and maintenance.

They don't sit around going "oh hey let's pay the doctors more for their services and the material providers more for their provisions, that way we can charge a little more!"

[mallister]

like i said, we'll see. maybe i'm wrong and it'll be all kittens and rainbows. but i wouldn't hold my breath.

[Plow]

nah, I'm sure you're right, insurance companies will pay doctors more because they just want to charge you more, even though it won't make them any more money

[kuronosan]

Plow's actually right on this one.

The only danger is from those doctors that penny pinch and overcharge you because the insurance companies already don't reimburse you enough. At this point it's not the cost of the procedure that's the problem it's that the (greedy) doctors want more money back.

As the law stands, hospitals will be reimbursed more often by insurance and thus have no real reason to raise prices. Doctors get more back from reimbursement and thus have no reason (theoretically) to charge more.

Stop making a mountain out of a molehill.

[ringthree]

Jesus christ, Plow just laid down the law, and then preemptively called out the retards. And yet the retards just kept on going.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

Plow's actually right on this one.

The only danger is from those doctors that penny pinch and overcharge you because the insurance companies already don't reimburse you enough. At this point it's not the cost of the procedure that's the problem it's that the (greedy) doctors want more money back.

As the law stands, hospitals will be reimbursed more often by insurance and thus have no real reason to raise prices. Doctors get more back from reimbursement and thus have no reason (theoretically) to charge more.

Stop making a mountain out of a molehill.

I didn't read the whole pissing match, but it looks like Plow is wrong once again. Correct me if what I'm about to post aligns with what he's saying.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...are-ludicrous/

This is the fundamental fact of American health care: We pay much, much more than other countries do for the exact same things. For a detailed explanation of why, see this article. But this post isn’t about the why. It’s about the prices, and the graphs.

Insurance companies and doctors have fuck all to do with lowering the cost of healthcare. Hospitals are for profit organizations and they set the cost of procedures and care. The insurance companies are now between a rock and hard a place because they have to pay out to hospitals who can charge 50,000 for a procedure in a middle class hospital and 5,000 for the same exact procedure in a lower class area. Compared to $700 in another country, for care that is equal or better.

Now insurance companies aren't innocent by any means and it is good that more people will have coverage, but the problem here is that providers are arbitrarily raising the costs and insurance companies have very small margins. Now they're being forced to cover more people and spend more of their money on that coverage, while the actual providers have zero incentive to lower costs. The public option would have helped this because the government has much more bargaining power and would have allowed insurance companies to become more competitive by lowering their costs when the providers came down on theirs. People seemed to see the public option as a big sign for free shit though and you know the whites didn't want any browns getting free shit on their watch, damned to hell if it helped the economy.

[Blubbartron]

Bingo Perm. Insurance companies may have been interested in telling providers to eat a dick in terms of cost for procedures before, but now that they're forced to spend 80% of premiums on health care, there's no more incentive. Paying the ridiculous price for procedures allows them to justify keeping their rates high, or increasing them even further, because 20% of 800 million dollars is more than 20% of 600 million. The public option (and the government), on the other hand, would be more than willing to tell providers to fuck off, you'll get what we give you and fucking like it (exactly as they do with medicare/medicaid).

[Drex]

Bingo Perm. Insurance companies may have been interested in telling providers to eat a dick in terms of cost for procedures before, but now that they're forced to spend 80% of premiums on health care, there's no more incentive. Paying the ridiculous price for procedures allows them to justify keeping their rates high, or increasing them even further, because 20% of 800 million dollars is more than 20% of 600 million. The public option (and the government), on the other hand, would be more than willing to tell providers to fuck off, you'll get what we give you and fucking like it (exactly as they do with medicare/medicaid).

Oh god the delusion, lol. Medicare/medicaid are already the gorillas in the room, insurers just base their prices off of what the gov pays. There is 0 basis for the idea that they will lower reimbursements (aka prices) because they already can and don't.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

Oh god the delusion, lol. Medicare/medicaid are already the gorillas in the room, insurers just base their prices off of what the gov pays. There is 0 basis for the idea that they will lower reimbursements (aka prices) because they already can and don't.

Citation needed