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Thread: Delve     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #4401
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    Yeah but this is SE here is the quote:


    Hello, it's Matsui.
    Thank you for your feedback.

    Because many of the posts here are talking about Delve, I wanted to make a few comments on what I've read.

    First,
    We check every day on the status of Delve boss monsters being defeated.
    We know that the use of Stun is one of the main methods utilized to defeat these monsters.

    As it is now, although there are three different Delve bosses, the number of defeats of Tojil is substantially higher than the other two. It seems that most players have adopted a method in which they avoid the majority of Tojil's damaging abilities by stunning them.

    It is, of course, possible to defeat these monsters in other ways that do not use Stun as significantly, as boss monsters are designed to be defeated in multiple ways.

    With specific regard to Tojil, I'll give some more information. Tojil is similar to Achuka from the Wildskeeper Reive, and is adjusted to be able to be defeated within Delve. Both Tojil and Achuka, as you may notice, will occasionally be cloaked in flames. When in this state, there are certain powerful techniques and higher ranked spells which are utilized that are not otherwise used. It is important during the defeat of the monster to clear this state.

    Throughout this thread, there has been a lot of information on the behavior of boss monsters, so I'll introduce one of those posts:
    I see a lot of people who are convinced that Stun is the only method of defeating these bosses. For the Morimar boss, there are things like Incinerating Lahar which can be completely avoided by ranged attackers and isn't used under certain conditions. The Foret boss has Marine Mayhem, which will always instantly kill people at a distance but only does damage to those close by. Also, even though the forest boss is water-based, it's designed so that it cannot always be Stunned. We will need to focus on other methods anyway, as I'm sure the Delve bosses corresponding to Lightning and Earth elements will not be stunnable.
    To highlight one point, as the HP of boss monsters (including Tojil) is reduced or certain conditions are fulfilled, certain abilities replace other abilities, and it is important to note and plan for this when the boss is preparing to use a dangerous ability.

    Since Delve fractures are easy to retry, please work on making gradual progress towards understanding the behaviors of the boss monsters. During this process, I believe that new methods of defeating these monsters will arise.
    Knowing them I wouldn't doubt changes to the mechanics to force peeps to do it another way....

  2. #4402
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    Yes, surely they wouldn't just reduce the readying time to near-instant to force an adjustment. They would definitely create intentional glitches.

  3. #4403
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    Could just be major lag or a glitch in the logs wouldn't be the first time they screwed up during a version update. My conspiracy side tho would always think those suckers stealth nerfed it lol....

  4. #4404
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    Didn't Matsui say that he wanted to keep away from the Stun or wipe strats?
    They probably want us to have a RUN in the party, just to survive certain moves

  5. #4405
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    so.. if I'm reading the thread right, Tojil went from easy mode stunning to extremely difficult, and Kurma now takes 2-3 times as long

    Is this some kind of random issue that doesn't happen every time or is EVERYONE reporting this? I might not waste whatever beads we have to try to get a kill tonight if that's true..

  6. #4406
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tymon View Post
    so.. if I'm reading the thread right, Tojil went from easy mode stunning to extremely difficult
    It's not really "extremely difficult" and it's not just post-update. We can have 2-3 runs where nothing gets off and then one run where it's bad.

  7. #4407
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    oh. I guess I got turned around somewhere then. Sorry for getting all doomsday there.

  8. #4408
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    Is it possible that all the dispel issues on kurma aren't due to a change to kurma or dispel, but a change to the geo spells that made it possible to land with such an insane rate(compared to without)? I mean, the bonus'/penalties were pretty insane. They may have toned them down slightly :/

  9. #4409
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    Quote Originally Posted by pooter01 View Post
    Is it possible that all the dispel issues on kurma aren't due to a change to kurma or dispel, but a change to the geo spells that made it possible to land with such an insane rate(compared to without)? I mean, the bonus'/penalties were pretty insane. They may have toned them down slightly :/
    They normally put that in the resolved issues now if it's intended instead of ninja nerfing it

  10. #4410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    It's not really "extremely difficult" and it's not just post-update. We can have 2-3 runs where nothing gets off and then one run where it's bad.

    Same here, zone are just retarded, Wsing and seeing no sign of ws on log/animation/parse and still losing TP/mob losing HP% show the zone are bad/glitched.

  11. #4411
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenshyn View Post
    Yeah but this is SE here is the quote:



    Knowing them I wouldn't doubt changes to the mechanics to force peeps to do it another way....
    Its hard to really do things any other ways when everything has a time limit attached to it. It pretty much forces people to melee zerg everything in its current state (unless you wanna farm beads that have atrocious drop rates). If there was no time limit or at least alot longer, people could use more controlled strategies such as using plds, blms, smns, rngs, etc based off their strengths of their group.

  12. #4412

    Quote Originally Posted by Fondue View Post
    Been getting bretty butthurt lately, we go in with a buyer and I dualbox stuns- I can't scroll up in chat logs or it freezes but I know one time my ready stun char didn't have baltho in log and it popped up on my other window so obv I missed it, have had lahars not show up at all and like he says everyone gets weakened.. Could they have changed some packet handling/labels? I don't know how it works but I had 0 issues ever before lastweek on
    This isn't new. Our group had this issue weeks ago, and it always seemed to happen during major latency spikes. We now fight Tojil towards the beginning of the zone, and have a Paladin pull it all the way back, this was the only way we could fight it without your issue happening to us.

    TP moves (usually Lahar) go off without appearing in the log (or only appear for 1-2 people in the entire alliance).

  13. #4413
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    Kurma definitely resists Dispel almost all the time now.

    480~ enfeebling, both GEO spells, Voidstorm from a SCH.. Still resists all the time.

    2 minutes 20 seconds, give or take, for the first 25% of Tojil with no boss weapons. Includes the DRK dying initially. Good? Bad? Terribad?

    We got it to 60% and 50% respectively before timing out. Not slow on Tojil really, just bad luck on other stuff. Disconnects and stuff.

  14. #4414
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    That's good enough to kill!

  15. #4415
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    Good. Beading out stuff tomorrow. Hopefully it dies. Even if it doesn't die we can buy Matamata beads and shave like 3 minutes and just get better at 5NM

  16. #4416
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    The only resist change I noticed in Morimar was Dispel on Kurma, which now resists it heavily even with GEO meva/macc buffs. Everything else landed the same as before patch.

  17. #4417
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    Had an observation. If we bead 3 tomorrow it leaves us with 2 mnk with formless down and wasting time.

    Matamata beads are kind of common here so I'll try to buy one before then.

    If not, we have all 4 other beads available. What's the best ones to remove in that situation?

    Or, if we have to fight the matamata early on, we could make it weak to physical damage. How is that approached? I've never done it before.

  18. #4418
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    Definitely have noticed a lot of zone lag in both Morimor and Ceizek when previously I've stunned over 25+ successful Tojil wins without much issue. Now its almost a guessing game when the apparent zone lag kicks in and you start hearing on vent from everyone "My WS wont go" "My cure wont go" and stuns are missing. I stun by animation not by chat log.

    Besides the ridiculous lag.... I'm in Squah's LS and we have had about 5 attempts on 5 NM + bee all resulting in 10-15% and timing out. There's obvious runs where we can do better on the lesser 5 NM's (like not casting elegy on mastop for starters....)

    But anyone who has consistently 5 NM + bee care to shed some light? I'm fully confident that if we have a 100% smooth run we can take out the bee np but even the smallest hick up seems to cause us to simply not have enough time for bee. We have about 9-10 min after buffs to down the bee and it's never enough. I feel like if the fight dragged out any longer though stuns would resist and it wont even matter how much extra time we get by beading out or being more efficient on lesser NMs. If you've seen our videos you can see that we really don't lack in damage nor debuff/buff control. Our best set up so far is...

    mnkx2, samx3, drg. Everything else is standard set up. We bring a rdm for chainspell stun on scorp. If we fast we down it before second message. Twitherm go down fast. Chapuli is meh... we feel that we can ws long before 25-30% but haven't tried yet. (we ws during spells) Gnat is pretty much how Squah said. If for some reason it gets a bombliation off we have sams switch to mura till its DT goes back to normal. Wamoura we dont prep on the side, we just go to straight after gnat and we really dont have issues (15 exuviations)

    Edit: Forgot to mention for the bee itself we down it to 25% pretty fast ~4-5min but last 25% the dt is insane and all damage types (formless included) just drop. Sams switch to mura but it isn't enough.

  19. #4419
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tymon View Post
    Had an observation. If we bead 3 tomorrow it leaves us with 2 mnk with formless down and wasting time.

    Matamata beads are kind of common here so I'll try to buy one before then.

    If not, we have all 4 other beads available. What's the best ones to remove in that situation?

    Or, if we have to fight the matamata early on, we could make it weak to physical damage. How is that approached? I've never done it before.

    RDM Nuke>Sleep to prep Mata for phys works. It is much easier just to have a DD hit it and prep for Formless though.

    If you have RDM do it, I suggest making a keybind to start a custom timer "timers create Matamata 55 down sleep" and hit it on TP move so you know when to nuke it awake and when next TP move is due.

  20. #4420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sukian View Post
    Definitely have noticed a lot of zone lag in both Morimor and Ceizek when previously I've stunned over 25+ successful Tojil wins without much issue. Now its almost a guessing game when the apparent zone lag kicks in and you start hearing on vent from everyone "My WS wont go" "My cure wont go" and stuns are missing. I stun by animation not by chat log.

    Besides the ridiculous lag.... I'm in Squah's LS and we have had about 5 attempts on 5 NM + bee all resulting in 10-15% and timing out. There's obvious runs where we can do better on the lesser 5 NM's (like not casting elegy on mastop for starters....)

    But anyone who has consistently 5 NM + bee care to shed some light? I'm fully confident that if we have a 100% smooth run we can take out the bee np but even the smallest hick up seems to cause us to simply not have enough time for bee. We have about 9-10 min after buffs to down the bee and it's never enough. I feel like if the fight dragged out any longer though stuns would resist and it wont even matter how much extra time we get by beading out or being more efficient on lesser NMs. If you've seen our videos you can see that we really don't lack in damage nor debuff/buff control. Our best set up so far is...

    mnkx2, samx3, drg. Everything else is standard set up. We bring a rdm for chainspell stun on scorp. If we fast we down it before second message. Twitherm go down fast. Chapuli is meh... we feel that we can ws long before 25-30% but haven't tried yet. (we ws during spells) Gnat is pretty much how Squah said. If for some reason it gets a bombliation off we have sams switch to mura till its DT goes back to normal. Wamoura we dont prep on the side, we just go to straight after gnat and we really dont have issues (15 exuviations)

    Edit: Forgot to mention for the bee itself we down it to 25% pretty fast ~4-5min but last 25% the dt is insane and all damage types (formless included) just drop. Sams switch to mura but it isn't enough.
    What kind of mura WS numbers are you getting below 25%?

    Also assuming you have a pld, give them a kclub+sushi+acc build and the rdm or a sch and have them begin prepping Tax'et while mastop is being killed.

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