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  1. #5101
    Relic Shield
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    Shiva

    Deleted. Not worth it.

  2. #5102
    Melee Summoner
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    My group is still trying for our first Tojil win. Our SCH are new to the job, and are improving every run, but still aren't at the level where they can stun the important stuff reliably. I'm seeking advice for eeking out a win even if a few important stuns are missed. I'm sure that "no stun = loss" isn't absolutely true. For instance, we miss stuns on Calcifying Mist pretty frequently, but we deal with it well. We count down to Petrification in voice chat, and our WHM/SCHs hit accession + stona as soon as we hit zero. No real harm done. As soon as it hits, it's removed. I'm looking for helpful advice along the same lines for Lahar. Of course we'll continue to try to stun it, but if it goes off (and it probably will), I don't think it has to be an automatic run-ender. My thoughts are along the lines of "DDs turn away, sleep him, wait till it wears off, curaga IV, resume fight". Is this unrealistic? Can anyone give advice on how to "deal with it" and still have a chance at a win if it goes off?

  3. #5103
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    Slycer Ilerion
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    Lahar is easy to deal with, anyone who says it isn't either doesn't know what PDT gear is or is just being thick. If it goes off, your melees go into turtle gear and your stunners need to be on the ball for the next couple of stuns. As long as it doesn't have some silly buffs like a residual undispelled attack boost from a Batholithic Shell, it should not kill anyone unless you're unlucky. I've been present for multiple wins where a Lahar went off either nobody or maybe one person died.

    Turn away and sleep isn't going to work, you need that Dia on for the entire fight so you can't rely on no DoT being on. You just need to turtle it until the weakness wears. The problem with letting Lahar go off repeatedly isn't necessarily that everyone's going to die, but that between switching to PDT gear and the weakness delay, your overall damage output takes a huge hit for the 30 or so seconds that the weakness is on, so you're essentially extending the fight for 20-30 seconds every time he gets one off. If it happens during something like FS/Hundred Fists at the start (assuming you're relying on that to get through the first 25%), it could be a major problem that costs the clear.

  4. #5104
    Black Belt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slycer View Post
    Is the threshold 50% of remaining HP or 50% of maximum HP?
    50% of max HP

    Quote Originally Posted by backstab View Post
    could anyone be so kind and help out with telling what TP moves need to stunned on a 5nm+bee run please. mostly wanna know what TP moves are to fast to be stunned.
    chapuli just stun Orthopterror. WS when it cast magic or when hes below 30%. dont silence it
    butterfly stun all "red lines"
    scorpion stun every interval by schs whenever possible, BRD sing 1 scherzo, RDM CS stun below 50%(AF+2 augment body is even better but not needed)
    Mastop just stun every WS thats not Exxxx Discharge. Slowga etc is instant, dont bother magic stun. just keep threnody/dia on it permanently. if your brd needs to sing, get SCH to spam helix
    wamoura: with 3 songs enfeebles, namely threnody + elegy + requiem(nocturne is 100% resist unless u wanna waste ability) he will always spam exuviation and heals for 0 HP. dont cast any enfeeble magic and there will be nothing to stun
    bee: stun everything, spam dia when u see whirling drone till effect is gone

    also people are over reacting to stuns.... SE said stun locking isnt the way they intended the NMs to be killed but didnt and never mention YOU DONT NEED STUN TO WIN

    bosses are stunnable and theres the stun magic on ur cast list so why wont you want to use it to stun specific shitty WS like lahar and tidal guillitine?

    stunning just important WS(SE's initial thinking of how they expect us to fight) VS stun everything (player base of winning) VS do not stun ANYTHING should be winnable(seriously wtf why dont u wanna stun at least the dangerous WS)

    i know people blaming lag/shitty players but if you cant stun lock(understandable its not hard but still A LITTLE hard for some player) then you should at least be able to stun something like lahar/guillitine... if not, dont go stunner..........let someone else do it

    to say its only do-able with bots is just an insult for all of us who cleared here w/o botting -_-

  5. #5105
    Old Odin
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    Asura

    Quote Originally Posted by Cletus View Post
    My group is still trying for our first Tojil win. Our SCH are new to the job, and are improving every run, but still aren't at the level where they can stun the important stuff reliably. I'm seeking advice for eeking out a win even if a few important stuns are missed. I'm sure that "no stun = loss" isn't absolutely true. For instance, we miss stuns on Calcifying Mist pretty frequently, but we deal with it well. We count down to Petrification in voice chat, and our WHM/SCHs hit accession + stona as soon as we hit zero. No real harm done. As soon as it hits, it's removed. I'm looking for helpful advice along the same lines for Lahar. Of course we'll continue to try to stun it, but if it goes off (and it probably will), I don't think it has to be an automatic run-ender. My thoughts are along the lines of "DDs turn away, sleep him, wait till it wears off, curaga IV, resume fight". Is this unrealistic? Can anyone give advice on how to "deal with it" and still have a chance at a win if it goes off?
    you can survive after lahar with a HP/PDT/MDT set. some poeple in my shell have a set that brings their HP up to 1500 while keeping moderate PDT/MDT until the weakness effect is off. They almost never die when a Lahar gets off (rarely).

  6. #5106
    Cerberus
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    Brynhildr
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    Mastop will only use emetic discharge if you have enough enfeebles on him. Dispelga and breakga are not instant, and I would highly recommend you stun them. Slowga is also possible to stun if you're fast enough.

  7. #5107
    Yoshi P
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    Leviathan

    Don't forget that all DDs should be using Carbonara now with the new skill on weapons, so that gives you quite of bit of extra buffer to survive Lahar.

  8. #5108
    Pro's Pet
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    Is hunter's roll still needed, or can it now be swapped for something else now?

  9. #5109
    First invited, last in the zone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seha View Post
    Is hunter's roll still needed, or can it now be swapped for something else now?
    Any DD that only has Plasm weapons and not Delve boss weapons will likely still be ~80 acc from cap before (de)buffs. So probably pick two of grav II hunters sushi + geo eva down, or whatever. Would depend on how many are missing it which is the best option.

  10. #5110
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    On the SCH stunning convo.
    I've done both methods for runs, text packet stunning and red line stunning. Red line stuns will always be the fastest. However, I've personally had more success with keeping the correct filters on and chat log stunning. Guess it might have something to do with every person on the mob towering over me.

  11. #5111
    RIDE ARMOR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeager View Post
    I went with a PUG very late last night. They beaded out Eft, Peiste, Kurma. Got to Tojil, STILL wiped at 98%. He got a TP move off right away that wiped half the DD. Stuns were very late. It was a mess.

    Tojil is just not possible without Stun, and due to battle spam and/or lag, it's difficult for a human player to tell if Tojil is readying a TP move or not. Almost seems like a bot is mandatory if you want a chance at Tojil win.
    It only hard to see his animation if u don't have effect filters on for ur DD WS's. Poeple just use chat filters and that's not enough for me I turn on the effect filters for pretty much everything but me and the monster. If u don't see dd ws animations it is cakewalk. Toji has slow tp moves. Like for example Iwas on my xbox last night cause computer was being used and we still went 3/3 on toji and I am a lways stunner for delve.... so sad really lol. But if I can do on xbox anyone with pc should have no. Issues.

  12. #5112
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    Slycer Ilerion
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    Also, Tojil doesn't have any TP move which can one-shot anyone. Even with Attack Boost up, I don't think any of his TP moves are strong enough to one shot people, especially with the improved defensive ratings of item level gear. At 98% I assume the aura was up even if you were trying to break it, so the only three possible moves this could have been are Lahar (doesn't kill anyone directly unless they had really low HP), Surge (weak AoE damage), and Shell (no direct damage).

    I've told many people this before, and it's obvious, but it's worth reiterating - if you go with one person who fails at stunning on repeat occasions, you need to swap that person out if your strategy relies so heavily on Stun. Stunning properly (without botting) requires a combination of correct graphical and chat filters, player reaction time, and stable connection. The first is easy to fix if it's not set properly, but the other two aren't, so if those are your issues, you need to get new stunners.

    Edit: One thing I find extremely important when I'm stunning is the ability to communicate directly and quickly with the other Stunner via Skype or whatever else. This is especially helpful if someone accidentally stuns early or stuns a fast spell so that the other stunner can be ready immediately.

  13. #5113
    Salvage Bans
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taruina View Post
    On the SCH stunning convo.
    I've done both methods for runs, text packet stunning and red line stunning. Red line stuns will always be the fastest. However, I've personally had more success with keeping the correct filters on and chat log stunning. Guess it might have something to do with every person on the mob towering over me.
    Can you share your full filter list. Normal filters and bmod filters if applicable.

  14. #5114
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    FYI, with normal filters, chat log stunning is OK on Tojil, but will not be reliable for Calcifying Mist. I'd say you'd have a 50% success rate at best. Normal chat filters kinda suck because you can't completely isolate monster stuff, you can only isolate to/from monster stuff, so you still see player abilities being readied.

  15. #5115
    Sea Torques
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slycer View Post
    Edit: One thing I find extremely important when I'm stunning is the ability to communicate directly and quickly with the other Stunner via Skype or whatever else. This is especially helpful if someone accidentally stuns early or stuns a fast spell so that the other stunner can be ready immediately.
    This so much, especially if someone stuns out of order or the other is still applying Embrava to the alliance. Also it's nice to remind the other SCH what not to stun (if applicable) if they've not done it much. Also good for the DDs, just in-case a move is going through, they might need a reminder for PDT or MDT.

  16. #5116
    A. Body
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    Sir Taint
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    If MNKs get their 2hr back from WC its a good idea to save it incase Lathar goes off to keep DPS up.

  17. #5117
    Bagel
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    Just out of curiosity, anyone here try low man attempts yet? Duo Toj w/ 14 chars last night using mnk mnk mnk mnk drk brd brd sch sch sch whm whm cor and still had 10min left after, pretty sure it can be done w/ less easily.

  18. #5118
    Old Merits
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    Should be pretty easy with MNKx2 WHM BRD | MNK DRG WHM COR | SCH SCH BRD

    Could probably do it with a single SCH if they can get their recast low enough with marches up.

    Edit: You could just consolidate the DD party and cut out the 2nd WHM also. Which would bring you down to 9 chars.

  19. #5119

    TY for all the replies regarding stuns on bee and the additional info^^ really appreciate it.

  20. #5120
    Melee Summoner
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    Shiva

    Talking about filters for stun, maybe I'm missing something here. I have all Effects filters turned ON. But I still all DD WS going off.

    For chat filters I have :
    Special action effects on/by party through Damage taken by party ON
    Special action effects on/by allies through Damage taken by allies ON
    Special action effects on/by others through Damage taken by others ON

    FWIW, this is how I've always been told to have filters set since back in the day BLM stunning Kings, Tiamat, Salvage, etc.

    I also still see all rolls, songs, buffs, etc.
    Wondering if settings for stunning and effects is still correct, or do I need to do more here.

    Thank you.

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