Head of Air Force Sexual Assault Prevention and Response unit charged with sexual battery

[Callisto]

As far as practicality goes I agree that if they aren't allowed to get drunk they aren't in a position to do stupid drunk things, but then again prohibition has never really worked anywhere ever and I'm pretty sure it'd just cost even more money/resources to enforce such a policy.

[Churchill]

Part one of the problem, like I said.

I don't think the solution is to get rid of booze, that could have some pretty nasty side effects too.

I also don't think people are responsible for their actions while they are drunk because it's very difficult to put a number on BAC and when you are/aren't in control. It's more accurate to say you are responsible for the actions leading up to your being drunk.

[Acevalefor]

I also don't think people are responsible for their actions while they are drunk because it's very difficult to put a number on BAC and when you are/aren't in control. It's more accurate to say you are responsible for the actions leading up to your being drunk.

I disagree with the first half. You are responsible for your actions leading up to being drunk as well as while you are drunk unless you somehow magically got drunk without your knowledge. It was your decision to consume alcohol. Regardless of any attempt to quantify being "in control" of your actions, you still groped a woman while drunk.

*You is not referring to any one person.

[Tyrath]

^ This.

You are responsible for anything and everything you do. If you can't handle being drunk and get fucked up anyway, that's your own damn fault. Past college nobody should have any excuses for not being able to handle their own drunkenness. It's not very hard to figure out your limits and know when to show restraint.

[Churchill]

I'm disagreeing with the blame being placed on when you are drunk, rather than deciding to drink (or drink too much).

eg, drinking and driving is not where I would place the fault, going out to drink without someone to DD or a way to get home or place to stay nearby (basically, a plan) is where I would place the fault.

If you killed someone while doing it you would still go to jail, I just don't think saying that some person is terrible because when they were drunk they did something is an accurate depiction of their worth.

[Byrthnoth]

I'm disagreeing with the blame being placed on when you are drunk, rather than deciding to drink (or drink too much).

eg, drinking and driving is not where I would place the fault, going out to drink without someone to DD or a way to get home or place to stay nearby (basically, a plan) is where I would place the fault.

If you killed someone while doing it you would still go to jail, I just don't think saying that some person is terrible because when they were drunk they did something is an accurate depiction of their worth.

As long as we're trading baseless opinions, I disagree with you.

You are always responsible for your own behavior, even when you have chosen to get yourself drunk in the most responsible way possible. If you aren't a socially responsible person when drunk, then you should avoid drinking to excess. It's not like this guy is some immature teen that just got into his parent's liquor cabinet for the first time. He's probably had plenty of times drinking to excess and knows how he behaves. This is just the first time that he's had a job title that makes for good headlines.

[Churchill]

lol

[Xno Kappa]

HK BLAMES IT ON THE BOOZE, SHOCKING

In seriousness, that's a tough one. 1) Being drunk doesn't exactly absolve people of personal responsibility in any other scenario, and 2) restricting the ability of guys potentially putting their lives on the line to wind down with some booze doesn't sound okay in practicality. Dilemmas of a liberal? idk

I was just being facetious about the booze lol.

Article 120 makes it very clear being drunk isn't an excuse either if anyone's curious;

(3)commits a sexual act upon another person when the other person is incapable of consenting to the sexual act due to-

(a)impairment by any drug, intoxicant, or other similar substance, and that condition is known or reasonably should be known by the person.

The bolded portion was deliberately written that way as well to prevent TDS from claiming their client could not have known the victim was impaired and/or wasn't in a reasonably correct state of mind to provide consent.

Reason I bring up alcohol is because it was the modus operandi in the majority of sexual assault cases investigated by CID in FY'12.

[Plow]

Not at all. Just pointing out plow's sensationalizing of the word rape.

Are people really not aware that there's a huge problem with rape in the military? Is it really hard to grasp that I'm pointing out that people are getting away with rape and shit all the time because people like this are put in charge?

http://servicewomen.org/wp-content/u...-10.8.2012.pdf

* In 2011, 1,518 of the 3,192 reported sexual assaults were considered actionable by the military, a decrease of 22% from the previous year. Prosecution rates for sexual predators are astoundingly low — in 2011, less than 8% of reported cases went to trial. Of the cases that went to trial, 191 subjects were convicted, resulting in 148 offenders serving jail sentences and 122 being discharged. An estimated 10% of perpetrators resigned in lieu of courts‐martial (RILO), which effectively means the military allowed rapists to quit their jobs in order to avoid facing charges.

*
1 in 3 convicted military sex offenders remain in the military.
vii
SWAN advocates DOD policy should discharge all convicted military sex offenders, eliminating the need to establish a military sex offender registry. Currently, the Navy is the only branch of the military that discharges all convicted sex offender. Convicted navy sex offenders that are not punitively discharged are given an administrative separation.

* While
rape, sexual assault, and sexual harassment are strongly associated with a wide range of mental health conditions for both men and women veterans, Military Sexual Trauma (MST) is the leading cause of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) among women veterans, while combat trauma is the leading cause of PTSD among men.

* Rape, sexual assault, sexual harassment and their attendant consequences are often risk factors for homelessness among women veterans. The Veterans Health Administration (VHA) found that 39-53% of homeless women veteran users screened positive for MST in FY 2010 compared to 22% of all women VHA users.

Take note, that's using the abbreviation MST for military sexual trauma which causes PTSD. It's that common of a thing.

THE AFTERMATH: PROBLEMS WITH ACCESSING BENEFITS AND TREATMENT
*
The Veterans’ Administration (VA) rejected two out of three MST claims in FY 2008-2010.
xiii
*
75.9% of veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan who screened positive for MST utilized care within a year. Gender was the biggest predictor of utilization, with men using less care than women.
xiv
* In FY 2009, 65,264 patients received at least one instance of outpatient care for MST-related conditions at VHA facilities.
Of the 65,264 patients, 59.6% were women and 40.4% were men
.
xv
* Some evidence suggests that rape, sexual assault, and sexual harassment survivors who have been treated in military medical settings experience a “second victimization” while under care, often reporting increased rates of depression and PTSD.
xvi
* Female rape, sexual assault, and sexual harassment survivors who have used VHA services reported a lower quality of care and dissatisfaction with VHA services compared to women using outside care.
xvii

So, just under 10 sexual assaults a day reported in 2011. We all know (fuck I hope people know, so sick of having to fucking explain the simplest concepts because I assume I'm talking to people with the slightest clue) how badly sexual assault is under-reported, and oh btw there's considerably more pressure and reason in the military not to report it.

Half of those, about 5 per day, are acted upon. Barely 1 per day is convicted, barely half of those convicted are actually punished.

And oh btw, of women seeking medical/psychological help in the aftermath, 2/3 of them are rejected.



Why?

Because the kind of people that attack random women they don't know in parking lots outside bars are placed in charge of prevention.




If this was the Catholic church every fucking person posting in this thread would be going apeshit.



When I ask if it can be time to deal with worthless rapist trash yet, I'm referring to the systematic prevention of punishment for sexual assault in the military.


It's a problem we have to deal with, and due to the fact that the military consists largely of worthless fucks like church that think the solution is to get women out of the military because there's not actually a rape problem, just the problem that, you know, rapes actually get reported occasionally, that solution will never come from the inside.

[Plow]

in before "zomg that's sum wimmenz organization you can't trust their... extensive list of DOD citations and freedom of information act obtained stats on medical treatment"

[Churchill]

but the solution is to get women out of the military

[Abandon]

^ This.

You are responsible for anything and everything you do. If you can't handle being drunk and get fucked up anyway, that's your own damn fault. Past college nobody should have any excuses for not being able to handle their own drunkenness. It's not very hard to figure out your limits and know when to show restraint.

Go on deployment, and let the locals buy you drinks. You think you're good, then you wake up in your rack on the ship, wondering where the night went. There are exceptions to nearly every rule. While I agree that one's conduct while drinking is still their responsibility, you can't quite make a blanket statement like that without at least attempting to realize that there are times when that shit simply isn't possible.

Also, you sound like a fucking lame ass person to hang out with

[Abandon]

but the solution is to get women out of the military

[Churchill]

I recommended brothels, don't give me that face.

edit: also pointing out that you have women in your unit, I did not. (Thank the good lord spaghetti)

[Plow]

but the solution is to get women out of the military

I'll be completely honest, I can't argue against that because I don't have an effective solution to offer for more successful integration.

But, the reasoning is terrible. "Boys will be boys" is no better an argument here than for the priesthood.

[Plow]

Go on deployment, and let the locals buy you drinks. You think you're good, then you wake up in your rack on the ship, wondering where the night went. There are exceptions to nearly every rule. While I agree that one's conduct while drinking is still their responsibility, you can't quite make a blanket statement like that without at least attempting to realize that there are times when that shit simply isn't possible.

Also, you sound like a fucking lame ass person to hang out with

Nah, really, college was fun for a couple years, but it's when you start to realize what's going on during that time you don't remember that you realize the complete lack of control, and if you're a reasonable person should grow out of it.

[Nephlite]

Take note, that's using the abbreviation MST for military sexual trauma which causes PTSD. It's that common of a thing.

In all fairness, the military has a labeling system for just about every ailment in existence so they can put it in an article as a "definable". There are no unknowns. If it's unknown, it gets researched and slapped a label so they can put it on paper. Cut your finger on a knife during CQC practice? The wound you got is a "Simulated Edged Combat Injury to Right Index" and it's slapped on paper so it can be pushed.

The frequency of reporting isn't the issue. It's the un-reported cases and the mislabeled cases that are the problem. That's why language in laws are always constantly changing to the betterment of those who do get wrongly convicted and punished severely because people want to make an example out of them. They do exist. The "Whiteknights" of feminism that want people to think it's such a huge deal when it really is so rare that it's silly.

Take for example (and I hate to agree with Church but he does make a solid point) a guy at a club is drinking up, having a good time and dancing with the ladies. As a heterosexual male, the number one thing on my mind is to get laid (which is why I make a fool out of myself and dance like an idiot when I can't dance to begin with and become even worse after three or four shots) and so I do my mating ritual of buffoonery. I'm bouncing from girl to girl, getting slapped down and still having a good time because I'm a bro and suddenly one girl screams when I accidentally brush up against her while I'm en-route to my next shut-down.

Immediately I'm accosted by three other equally drunk and equally hormone-driven bro's who proceed to beat the living snot out of me and get me ejected. As I'm thrown out, there's three officers standing next to the girl who I just bumped who screams I touched her breast. According to the law, I committed a misdemeanor sexual assault because I grabbed her breasts and it's unwanted (by her) and I get slammed. Jail time, mandatory alcohol meetings, sex offender registry, etc. All for a bump. If I were a crappy officer, I would have definitely charged him with Misdemeanor Sexual Assault but I did a thorough investigation, found it was an accident, and arrested the girls boys. She screams we didn't arrest the person who sexually assaulted her (which is a very serious allegation) which gets me (the officer investigating) and all involved suspended or fired and reopens the case putting out more man hours and more time investigating the incident.

So it's a lose-lose. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Happens all the time. Seen cases where victims scream sexual assault on a drunk or sexual assault during the commission of something else when it an accident or (and this is my opinion) someone goes to reach or grab or punch/kick/push an area of a female and what body parts tend to stand out or are most accessible on a female? The breasts or buttocks. They get in the way and are targets sometimes. Nature of the beast. Guy defending himself from a drunk at a club and she's flailing at him and he just tries to restrain her and he accidentally brushes or grabs something like the breast or maybe brushes her butt and suddenly she (and everyone around her) are screaming the guy tried to rape her. Get's tensions up and causes a lot of unnecessary headache.

[Plow]

would you like some links to catholic church apologists saying the exact same shit, or do I really even need to point it out?

[Nephlite]

Yeah I'm not saying some of it is bullshit. Some of it is. But that's why you need to do good investigations and take it seriously instead of knee-jerking and letting emotions lead the investigation. It's just like tainting evidence. That's why jury selection is important when you do stuff like this. I like what our department does and rotates the Sex-Squad detectives every 5 years or so. Eventually you become so jaded to your case load, you (the investigator) eventually become biased because you've seen so much bad shit.

[Plow]

honestly if you believe that 3,192 reported assaults means there were less than 191 legit assaults and however many wrongful convictions to make it 191 convictions, you've gone way beyond kidding yourself, there's no way that can be anything but willful ignorance