All of the above - Alternative Energy Options

[Buffy]

When Obama was pushing the importance of eliminating the US's dependence on foreign oil, he used the phase "All of the above" to explain what he felt the US's policy on energy supplies should be. Clean coal, domestic oil production, natural gas, hydro, wind, everything.

I don't agree with the President on a lot of his political views, but this one made a lot of sense to me and I agreed wholeheartedly. If for no other reason, the advantages of keeping those dollars inside the United States would lead to jobs domestically. It also has national security implications that instead of buying foreign oil and supplying those regimes with cash, we can support our needs domestically..

I tripped over this interesting video on CNN today, regarding the use of Natural Gas in long-haul trucks, and wondered if anyone had seen anything along these lines:

http://<object width="384" height="3...mbed></object>

I can't seem to get the link to embed because CNN's website is gay (more likely I don't know what I'm doing). Here is the CNN link:

http://money.cnn.com/video/news/2013...l-gas.cnnmoney

I don't think this is a viable (over 100 years) long-term solution because like oil, propane is a finite resource. I think the best fuel source in the long term for vehicles would be a bio-diesel based fuel that doesn't use corn or other food sources for ethanol, but something that is grown and turned into a bio-diesel source. Old Dominion University (http://ww2.odu.edu/ao/research/vcerc...iodiesel.shtml) has a long-term research project underway, attempting to find such a resource.

I find this stuff interesting and think a renewable energy source for vehicles and a sustainable energy source (holy grail: fusion) for homes and businesses is within reach in our lifetime. Eliminating competition over energy supplies and creating a cheap, renewable source of energy would do a lot to help with development of third world countries.

[kuronosan]

You do realize how easy it is to synthesize natural gases?

[Buffy]

I don't, I have no knowledge of the topic.

[BaneTheBrawler]

[Plow]

[archibaldcrane]

Don't worry, Elon Musk is on the motherfucker.

I'd be surprised if 20 years from now there isn't a long-haul electric truck.

Solar keeps improving and becoming more widespread - here in California it is illegal to build a new house without solar panels.

[archibaldcrane]

I think the best fuel source in the long term for vehicles would be a bio-diesel based fuel that doesn't use corn or other food sources for ethanol, but something that is grown and turned into a bio-diesel source. Old Dominion University (http://ww2.odu.edu/ao/research/vcerc...iodiesel.shtml) has a long-term research project underway, attempting to find such a resource.

A friend of mine works for a biofuels company that plants Jatropha on a huge farm in Mexico, which produces a petroleum product that is "drop-in" swappable for either diesel fuel or jet fuel (depending on how they treat it).

Still though, we're one leap in battery technology away from electricity powering just about everything. If metal-air batteries get off the ground, it's game over for everything else as far as transit goes. A current lithium-air battery has around 11 times the energy density by weight as a lithium-ion battery (which is used in current electric cars). You're talking about taking a 1200-lb battery (like in the Tesla Model S) and replacing it with a 110 lb. battery. Sodium-air batteries could theoretically eclipse the energy density of an Li-ion battery by a power of 300X.

[Mazmaz]

My dad is a senior chemical engineer for natural gas companies in Alberta. Ask me anything.

[Brill Weave]

I'd rather ask Bane about his personal methane collection.

[Waraji]

The day we're off oil completely and all its subsidiary products, is the day the planet earth runs out of it. I'm all for new fuel sources to power everything we need, but the powers that be will not have that shit. Lobbyist Lobbyist Lobbyist.

[Callisto]

I still dislike the the depiction of natural gas as being so much cleaner than oil, yes the actual emissions created by consuming it are, but that's discounting the effects of fracking that's wrecking drinking water supplies and potentially causing seismic activity that wouldn't otherwise occur.

[Acevalefor]

potentially causing seismic activity that wouldn't otherwise occur.

I have brought this up several times in various conversations about energy. Of course the "drill baby, drill!" people don't even want to entertain the idea that fracturing could cause some pretty horrible disasters. They also like to point out the fact that the EPA has not directly linked drinking water contamination to fracking. Even though there are more than 30 cases since 2009 where fracking is listed as the suspected cause of contamination.

The seismic activity recorded at fracking sites has been compared to driving piles for bridges, mining activity (like strip mining using explosives), commercial construction practices and drilling geothermal well. Source: http://csis.org/publication/fracking...ismic-activity.

The general consensus is that fracking doesn't cause an increase in seismic activity any more than mining and construction activities that have been going on for 60+ years. That consensus is reached by siting that there is no proof.
That's as brilliant way to deduce that something isn't bad. There's no proof that it is bad so it must be good. No need to research it further. We have proved that is good by not proving that it is bad so everyone can go home and forget about the issue.....

[kuronosan]

I'm against fracking and I'm against "clean" fossil fuels. Personally, if what archi said can become a reality in the next 4-5 years, I believe metal-gas batteries would be the first step in producing efficient sources of electricity. If they can ever get hydrolytic cells working efficiently it would be even better.

[archibaldcrane]

It won't be in the next 4-5 years for metal-air batteries. We're just looking at incremental improvements to Li-ion batteries, and possibly beginning to adopt superconductors in that timeframe.

[Anakron]

I've actually been really curious about alternative energy and some of the implications they may have, and if there have been studies done in their area. Hope some of you guys may know or have similar questions.

For example, wind power sounds good and all, but are there any implications to what seems to be basically disturbing/lessening air flow around the windmills? I'm no scientist, so I honestly haven't a clue, but there has to be some sort of effect, right?

Similar thing for water. Obviously building a dam directly affects any downstream habitat and such, but what about more long term effects? I've read about harnessing wave energy as well, but wouldn't that run into similar issues as harnessing wind? You're basically disturbing/lessening water flow around the coast and/or oceans.

Maybe we can't possibly harness enough to affect things on a grand scale? But what about in the future, or over a long period of time?

[Waraji]

Honestly, I don't believe there is sufficient grounds to invest immensely on Wind and Solar. Hydroelectric power only gets you so far due to geographical requirements. The next big thing will be coming from advancements in the synthethic Chemical Sciences, ie ethanols, chemical batteries, etc. Haven't read anything recently on molten salts, should probably look to see what has happened with that. I like Nuclear power, but I don't like the immense amount of waste/harm it does to us, the only reason we haven't pushed for that next best thing from Nuclear is because we have so much invested already, something which was warned about back in the day.

This energy stagnation has all to do with money. No lack of, but how to generate mass amounts of it from new/old technologies while still keeping the cost relative to the power being produced.

See Tesla and JP Morgan for more how this turns out more often than not.

Edit: quote from article linked above. "The company’s biggest challenge might come from China, which is investing $350 million over five years to develop molten-salt reactors of its own. It plans to build a two-megawatt test reactor by 2020." More on why the US is failing at Energy at 11.

[Acevalefor]

Similar thing for water. Obviously building a dam directly affects any downstream habitat and such, but what about more long term effects?

Hydraulic turbines aren't really that popular right now. The Bonneville Power Administration is working on plans to remove several dams on the Columbia river. Part of their planning involves replacing the electricity lost with energy produced by the massive number of wind turbines being installed all over central/eastern Washington and Oregon. I would love to see Bonneville dam, The Dalles dam and the John Day dam all removed and the river returned to a more natural state. Celilo Falls could run freely again and the Locks could be left in place to accommodate the commercial river traffic. The benefits to the native tribes, commercial fisheries and tourism would be welcome.
Those dams also play a role in flood control as well as energy conversion. In 1996 when the NW saw massive flooding, the dike along the Columbia river would have been breached without the dams that helped control river flow during high tide which would have flooded most of the low lying areas like it did during the Vanport flood. Photo of the 1948 Vanport Flood:

At the time of construction of these dams, it was an alternative energy option to help move away from coal and oil energy. I am sure there will be issues with replacing hydro energy with wind energy. There have already been some major issues with birds and bats causing damage to the turbines as well as noise pollution due to the humming or whistling that most of the wind turbines emit.[IMG]http://www.bluegartr.com/

[Plow]

Yeap, wind farms are definitely going to make us run out of wind.

[Niiro]

A bit of history. In the 30s the biggest companies with a stake in the automotive industry came together and established a plan to systematically buy up and dismantle electric rail companies across the country. The vast, vast majority of people got around by streetcars because they were just so damn cheap and convenient and cars weren't (and still aren't) a sound investment by any means. They spent decades going through all this trouble of eliminating a superior competitor just to move product (they were only ever brought up on anti-trust law charges in one instance and fined pocket change).

Only tangentially relevant to the topic at hand but it's something to keep in mind when thinking about alternative energy and how many, many companies don't want it simply because it's not good for business. The world runs on oil and the wealthiest people in the world intend to keep it that way, the limits of technology are the least of our concerns.

[quannum]

lets kickstart a dyson sphere