Rift: Goes F2P June 12

[ringthree]

There's no real reason NOT to go free to play. The company makes more money, more people play your game(MMO's need an active community to survive), and players don't need to pay money. It's a win/win situation for everyone involved. Personally I prefer buy to play/GW2 model to purely free to play, I get to pay $60 for pretty much all access to the game, instead of f2p where I get 95% of the time, but still need to pay for some things. Buy to play ends up costing me less to play in the long run.

You are deluding yourself if you think that developers make more money going free to play. The subscription model is what they would all prefer, they just can't make games good enough to justify it, or the public doesn't want it anymore.

[Lucavi]

If devs made more cash going F2P, WoW and XI would have gone F2P years ago. F2P stems from a failure to make enough money through the 1+ mil subs everyone wants to obtain. XI doesn't need a million subs because the game costs nothing to run, and didn't cost anywhere near what newer titles cost to make.

[Alderaan]

T Neverwinter has been added to my list of excellent F2P MMO's, it may have outdated graphics, but zones still look really cool/pretty and it's a pretty fun decent game. I hope Cryptic handles the game properly and actually fixes all the bugs, exploits, and balanced problems, while also adding content. So far it seems like the game is being ignored, but we'll see.

I really don't want to shit up this thread but once again my mind is blown. Neverwinter has got to have one of the worst F2P systems in place I've ever seen. There's a reason it's being ignored besides not staying true to what D&D fans want.

[Shiyo]

Shiyo. Cut it the fuck out with the shitposting in threads about games you obviously have a grudge against. We've told you about the BRP rule before. It applies to the entire forum.

Having an opinion on a game I enjoyed at release but stopped playing from lack of interesting new content or balance changes quick enough is not shit posting. I don't have a grudge against this game, I played it, enjoyed it, and want to play it again. The only reason I haven't played it again is because it had a montlhy sub - and as I said, I didn't feel it was worth a sub with all the other superior games on the market without one. Which is true, considering it went free to play.

Someone mentioned FF14, and FF11, saying they still have subs, as well as WOW, and I responded to them explaining how FFXI still keeps it's sub, and how FF14 might be able to. For WOW, I honestly didn't understand how it keeps it's sub numbers so high, but it's still bleeding subs pretty fast , I think the majority of people just use WOW as a facebook and log on to talk to people and socialize? No idea really.

None of this qualifies as "shit-posting", it's all my opinions, not even attacking anyone directly, not posting completely off-topic things, and not arguing with anyone for pages at a time. I responded to multiple people talking about things, and didn't insult them, I backed up their claim.

[Madeline]

Same shit literally every second thread.

MMO released
2 pages pass of discussion/pictures/vidya depending on your PPP settings, rocking 50 cause superior.
Shiyo enters
"Shit posting"
Get out
Gets out to another thread wherein the same thing happens
Discussion continues in aforementioned thread
Comes back to aforementioned thread at a later time
More "shit posting"
Get out
Gets out
Bitch about Shiyo's posting
Add Kiarax coming to the rescue every now and again to explain why babies are made.


rinse/repeat. Getting old. >_> I usually read and can agree with the underlying points, but Jesus.

[Shiyo]

delete.

[Lucavi]

I was gonna say, where's Kiarax?

Anyway, I'll be jumping back in this game, if for nothing else but to rape face with Pyromancer. I love love love LOVE that class.

[Kiarax]

Sup.

You are deluding yourself if you think that developers make more money going free to play. The subscription model is what they would all prefer, they just can't make games good enough to justify it, or the public doesn't want it anymore.

But devs do make more money going F2P, it's the exact reason so many games DO go F2P now. Obviously exceptions such as WoW/EVE/FFXI exist, and I'm sure games like TERA or RIFT wish they could pull in the numbers to justify a sub fee, but it's just not possible nowadays without a well established name behind it. The MMO market is horribly over saturated and there's tons of high quality F2P games available, it's hardly fair to call a game a failure for choosing to use the F2P model when it likely means more success for them. The market has changed in a big way the past few years.

[Maaglin]

The problem is that a lot of times F2P means P2W. Or stupid shit they want you to pay for that any game under any model should have, like character slots.

I'm pretty instantly turned off from a game that wants to nickel and dime me to death just to get to a point to play with the options/settings that I feel should be standard. Or something insanely retarded like D3's RMAH.

And isn't Neverwinter set up that to get the best gear you are forced to buy different crafting items through the cash shop? I don't play it, but seen people bitching about it. That's the kind of crap right there that will make me pass on a game without a second thought.

[Kiarax]

Oh for sure, it's very easy for games to do F2P "wrong" and make it P2W. I feel this has gotten a lot better over the years but it still happens, though usually in lower quality titles that most people pass over. Neverwinter toes the line for me, there's definitely some reliance on the cash shop (and far more than I'd like personally) but everything from the cash shop is tradable and you can even buy cash shop currency using in game currency. The cash shop stuff becomes pretty easy to obtain once you hit the level cap, but you are still reliant on other people putting money in to the game to sell you those items. Personally this is a model I can easily get behind. I'd obviously prefer simple convenience/cosmetic stuff, but I understand they're a business and sometimes that just isn't enough. If I can pretty easily obtain those items by just playing the game then I'll at least give the game a shot. On the other hand you have publishers like Nexon who are pretty renowned for their scummy P2W models, often selling untradable costumes (with stats)/consumables which give a sizable advantage in PvP. These kinda games never get my money personally.

[Hyan]

The problem is that a lot of times F2P means P2W.

Tbh the problem is that F2P doesn't offer the same quality content post-release as P2P. Maybe I've missed something crucial but as far as Ive seen every time game goes F2P/is released as one its content updates go to shit.

This may not be a problem with the model per se, simply because the company can't even in the best case get enough money to justify more effort. But to me if a game goes F2P it indicates a certain drop in quality. Thus I see it as an inferior model to P2P with a large playerbase => more content. Maybe F2P isn't a failure for the company but it is a personal failure to me lol.

[Brill Weave]

Having an opinion on a game I enjoyed at release but stopped playing from lack of interesting new content or balance changes quick enough is not shit posting. I don't have a grudge against this game, I played it, enjoyed it, and want to play it again. The only reason I haven't played it again is because it had a montlhy sub - and as I said, I didn't feel it was worth a sub with all the other superior games on the market without one. Which is true, considering it went free to play.

Someone mentioned FF14, and FF11, saying they still have subs, as well as WOW, and I responded to them explaining how FFXI still keeps it's sub, and how FF14 might be able to. For WOW, I honestly didn't understand how it keeps it's sub numbers so high, but it's still bleeding subs pretty fast , I think the majority of people just use WOW as a facebook and log on to talk to people and socialize? No idea really.

None of this qualifies as "shit-posting", it's all my opinions, not even attacking anyone directly, not posting completely off-topic things, and not arguing with anyone for pages at a time. I responded to multiple people talking about things, and didn't insult them, I backed up their claim.

Go back and reread your original post. Where in that entire shitfuck of words did anything other than negative stuff get posted? It didn't. That's what we're referring to when a mod says you're shitposting. If you actually posted once in a while where you weren't complaining about whatever game it is people wouldn't give two shits if you posted something negative. But as it stands the VAST majority of your posts are negative, why game X sucks, why game Y is even worse. Making fun of/making negative comments about the userbase because they play it etc. It's fine to have an opinion on games. But you've essentially become a less antagonistic BRP.

[Brill Weave]

I'm genuinely not trying to give you a hard time here. I'm just trying to illustrate a point to you.

[ringthree]

Sup.


But devs do make more money going F2P, it's the exact reason so many games DO go F2P now. Obviously exceptions such as WoW/EVE/FFXI exist, and I'm sure games like TERA or RIFT wish they could pull in the numbers to justify a sub fee, but it's just not possible nowadays without a well established name behind it. The MMO market is horribly over saturated and there's tons of high quality F2P games available, it's hardly fair to call a game a failure for choosing to use the F2P model when it likely means more success for them. The market has changed in a big way the past few years.

They go F2P because they didn't make a game good enough to get the golden egg of a subscription model.

The evidence is empirical.

[ringthree]

I really don't want to shit up this thread but once again my mind is blown. Neverwinter has got to have one of the worst F2P systems in place I've ever seen. There's a reason it's being ignored besides not staying true to what D&D fans want.

The game and the F2P system can be seen as two different entities.

The game is good, the F2P system is complicated, intrusive and unnecessary.

And D&D hasn't stayed true to D&D since anything past 2.0, let alone when Wizards took over the game.

[ringthree]

Anyway, back on topic. Now that Rift is going F2P, I am really interested in it because of the deep and difficult raiding system. Can anyone give some information on the current state of raiding and if it is something a FFXI player would be interested in?

[LidenbokValour]

Nevermind, answered my question by using google. Who would of thought? lol.

[Alderaan]

The game and the F2P system can be seen as two different entities.

The game is good, the F2P system is complicated, intrusive and unnecessary.

Completely agree 100% People have to understand that not all F2P systems are created equal. Lumping them all into the same pool just because you can do it with P2P is just looking for an excuse. The main point of F2P is, or at least should be, removing the initial barrier for entry. The problem that many of these companies themselves implement, because they don't understand their own model, is they end up nickel and diming everyone for every little thing. Bag space, character slots, server transfers, name changes, and all that are understandable. Putting up barriers on quest chains, dungeons, rep grinds, money limits, and gear itself is just bad.

This is where i have an issue with Neverwinter. Want to sell mounts for $40? Go for it, but i better be able to acquire them in game from a quest or drop off difficult content. Companions are the same deal. Being able to outright buy the best gear with real money is unacceptable, regardless if they can be acquired in game with much more time invested. That destroys the essence of what MMO's are about, similar to what they did with D3. I'll never support that type of MMO with my wallet. Millions of players do support GW2's and LoL's shop because they're actually not terrible. Although GW2's shop is actually lacking in actual skins (they need to get rid of the silly town gear and give players appearance tabs), which could still be used with transmutation stones.

Rift seems to be going down the right path so far and I'll support them if that continues.

[Khalil]

Anyway, back on topic. Now that Rift is going F2P, I am really interested in it because of the deep and difficult raiding system. Can anyone give some information on the current state of raiding and if it is something a FFXI player would be interested in?

The raiding scene, at the present moment, is dying. Multiple guilds have folded due to lack of interest in the game, be it from outside sources or internal factors from the game itself. A lot of the high-end raiding guilds are at 20-22 man roster, unless they're packing another 20man raid group. I've seen several guilds try and merge with other top raiding guilds and their personalities have clashed (SO and RR).

That being said, Frozen Tempest and Endless Eclipse (the two 20man raids for this present tier) are easier than our past tiers. Mind you, they are not a cakewalk but you could clear the entire tier with dungeon gear no problem. Also, the complexity of certain abilities in this tier is far easier than in previous tiers. Suffice it to say, we have an easy tier till the next one gets released in August/September.

The only benefit you'll experience going from FFXI to RIFT is the class system. You can swap between 3 different roles in one class, so it's always pretty fresh if you don't wish to heal one instance, for example. You can choose to DPS or perhaps tank an encounter.

[Crizto]

Anyway, back on topic. Now that Rift is going F2P, I am really interested in it because of the deep and difficult raiding system. Can anyone give some information on the current state of raiding and if it is something a FFXI player would be interested in?

How much you enjoy raiding obviously depends on if you join a good enough guild, so don't be afraid to hop around (can transfer servers once a week if you need to). Apart from that, the raids are a good challenge for many groups. Top-end guilds typically need 1-2 months to clear something out; less if they test the raid on the PTS. As long as your guild is stable and can replace those that drop out, you should have a good time. If the hardmodes are included along with the remaining normal bosses, every encounter should give you a good challenge and be fun to progress on. There are a ton of guilds out there that still haven't cleared the current content and that's been out since November, so certainly not everyone steam-rolls the place; expect it to be difficult.