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  1. #61

    Quote Originally Posted by Xajii View Post
    Either you're offended on principle, your you have something to hide. In terms of what I imagine is being done with this data by the NSA... I doubt they're going to knock down your door for that text you sent about buying weed.

    It iis definitely concerning in that it would start to get real muddy if it happened on the state and local law enforcement levels. But I can see the other side of this too.
    Expect this to be the start of attempts to have PRISM's data-collection activities accessed by other law enforcement authorities, now that it's openly known to the public. So yes, the NSA won't give a shit about you sending a text to the local dealer, but Sheriff Cousin-Fucker will be delighted about it and use that to get a judge to authorize digging through your phone.

    Thanks, Patriot Act!

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blubbartron View Post
    Ding ding ding, we have a winner. Way to be a fascist. How is it not common knowledge that this is the single most deplorable argument that can be made on the topic of privacy?
    I'm not saying that justifies anything. I'm well aware of that. But I'm saying there are two reasons to be concerned and that's one of them. The other is all encompassing and a reasonable excuse but it doesn't merit much discussion which is why I find most of the comments here empty
    Yes it's wrong. Yes it sets a bad precedent. Yes there's pretty much nothing to be done about it.

  3. #63
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    "Way to be a fascist." Lmao. Come on dude.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyven View Post
    having some spooks know i spent 45 minutes last night looking for the hoopz sex tape is a small price to pay to prevent the next 9/11
    But they already failed to prevent BENGHAZI yo

    also, did you find that tape. imma need it

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xajii View Post
    I'm not saying that justifies anything. I'm well aware of that. But I'm saying there are two reasons to be concerned and that's one of them. The other is all encompassing and a reasonable excuse but it doesn't merit much discussion which is why I find most of the comments here empty
    Yes it's wrong. Yes it sets a bad precedent. Yes there's pretty much nothing to be done about it.
    We've all known this shit's been going on because we're more tech savvy people. Old people don't, and now that there is more publicity around it, and old people actually vote, there could be something done about it. I don't feel anything will change or happen, but since there's actual proof, I can discuss this openly without being labeled a conspiracy theorist by people outside the internet. So there's that at least.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyreth View Post
    Expect this to be the start of attempts to have PRISM's data-collection activities accessed by other law enforcement authorities, now that it's openly known to the public. So yes, the NSA won't give a shit about you sending a text to the local dealer, but Sheriff Cousin-Fucker will be delighted about it and use that to get a judge to authorize digging through your phone.

    Thanks, Patriot Act!
    Eh LEO have very different regulations than an agency like NSA. I can see it happening, but it would spark some fun legal cases for sure.

  7. #67

    Quote Originally Posted by Headspace View Post
    You're assuming I don't get that it's been happening because I'm posting in this thread in 2013 like I'm suddenly outraged.
    Nope. Although that's a long time to be ticked off about a lost cause that was effectively decided before Clinton got into office, if not Reagan. Waste of energy.

  8. #68

    Quote Originally Posted by Headspace View Post
    I'm offended on principle really. I want them to go through the proper channels of getting warrants to search through information, and not everything. Like I said, I do fuck all on the internet anymore, but it's also not just the internet but phone records/recordings, text messages, VOIP, facetime/skype. That's concerning. The fact that they're doing this without warrant or using a sweeping ruling means that they treat innocent people as suspects, and it wouldn't be okay if it was physical searches, but more people are apathetic because it's the internet.
    I'm not concerned just based on principle. The reality is that they could make a mistake. They're essentially using a system (program, algorithm, whatever) to investigate every single person in the country, and no system is devoid of false positives. They may let a lot slip through the cracks by setting the filter extra high (causing lots of false negatives), but even one false positive that gets sent to gitmo forever without a trial is absolutely inexcusable. I would rather see hundreds of successful terrorist plots than even one innocent person being tortured for information they don't have.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blubbartron View Post
    I'm not concerned just based on principle. The reality is that they could make a mistake. They're essentially using a system (program, algorithm, whatever) to investigate every single person in the country, and no system is devoid of false positives. They may let a lot slip through the cracks by setting the filter extra high (causing lots of false negatives), but even one false positive that gets sent to gitmo forever without a trial is absolutely inexcusable. I would rather see hundreds of successful terrorist plots than even one innocent person being tortured for information they don't have.
    You have absolutely no idea how the NSA works lol

  10. #70

    Quote Originally Posted by Xajii View Post
    Eh LEO have very different regulations than an agency like NSA. I can see it happening, but it would spark some fun legal cases for sure.
    Basically, once people know that there's a legit, open way to use that legal crowbar, every law enforcement agency is going to want their own and agitate to see it happen. And now, they do. Like NSA is going to be able to keep this discreet to their own people when (if not already) the FBI and CIA and everyone down the food chain is going to think it's the best thing since sliced bread and get a piece? I wouldn't be shocked to see some states actually try and build similar access for their LEOs, too. After all, it's easier to enforce when you've got more info to catch people doing stuff, and the fewer hoops they have to jump through because someone else bulldozed a path to said info, the better for them (and the worse for us normal people, natch.)

  11. #71

    Quote Originally Posted by Xajii View Post
    You have absolutely no idea how the NSA works lol
    Can you prove that it's even theoretically possible to design a system (even with human interaction as part of the system) that is devoid of false positives and is even remotely useful (i.e. false negative rate isn't 99% or higher)?

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blubbartron View Post
    Can you prove that it's even theoretically possible to design a system (even with human interaction as part of the system) that is devoid of false positives and is even remotely useful (i.e. false negative rate isn't 99% or higher)?
    You act like the process is

    System picks something up -> identify person -> send to titmouse

    Amazingly there is a process called investigation designed tto follow up on leads.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Headspace View Post
    But they already failed to prevent BENGHAZI yo

    also, did you find that tape. imma need it
    NEVER FOUND IT

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyven View Post
    NEVER FOUND IT
    The NSA laughs at your failure!

  15. #75

    Quote Originally Posted by Xajii View Post
    You act like the process is

    System picks something up -> identify person -> send to titmouse

    Amazingly there is a process called investigation designed tto follow up on leads.
    I'm well aware there is an investigative process and this NSA thing is just creating a subset of the population for investigation. Did I really need to explicitly state that it's possible for investigators to fuck up and cause this? Is it really necessary to draw up a convincing hypothetical like, you're a college student that befriended the Boston bombing brothers, and you made some questionable sarcastic jokes on Facebook. Is it really that difficult to imagine that someone could have their life ruined merely by association? It doesn't even have to be locked in gitmo forever. It could just be a record that you were investigated for suspected terrorism (goodbye any chance of government/security clearance required job).

  16. #76
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    This ain't V for Vendetta. You can't just black bag innocent people and not raise a major stink.

  17. #77
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    uhh

  18. #78

    Quote Originally Posted by Blubbartron View Post
    I'm well aware there is an investigative process and this NSA thing is just creating a subset of the population for investigation. Did I really need to explicitly state that it's possible for investigators to fuck up and cause this? Is it really necessary to draw up a convincing hypothetical like, you're a college student that befriended the Boston bombing brothers, and you made some questionable sarcastic jokes on Facebook. Is it really that difficult to imagine that someone could have their life ruined merely by association? It doesn't even have to be locked in gitmo forever. It could just be a record that you were investigated for suspected terrorism (goodbye any chance of government/security clearance required job).
    How is that different from any other investigation? Aside from being stupid, your hypothetical requires no government intrusion anyway.

    Unless you think you have a reasonable expectation of privacy on......facebook. In which case idk what to tell you.

  19. #79

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyis. View Post
    This ain't V for Vendetta. You can't just black bag innocent people and not raise a major stink.
    Oh, I'm sure a stink would be raised. But once a system is in place, no matter how much evidence there is that it's been used incorrectly, or that it doesn't meaningfully reduce crime (or terrorism, in this case), it's very difficult to remove that system. No one wants to admit they failed, or that the idea wasn't any good to begin with, so they'll try to adjust and "fix" the issues. In some cases, fixing means destroying evidence that the system fucked up in the first place.

    Statistics likely understate the actual problem of wrongful convictions because once an execution has occurred there is often insufficient motivation and finance to keep a case open, and it becomes unlikely at that point that the miscarriage of justice will ever be exposed. In the case of Joseph Roger O'Dell III, executed in Virginia in 1997 for a rape and murder, a prosecuting attorney bluntly argued in court in 1998 that if posthumous DNA results exonerated O'Dell, "it would be shouted from the rooftops that ... Virginia executed an innocent man." The state prevailed, and the evidence was destroyed.
    Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongfu...#United_States

  20. #80

    Quote Originally Posted by Ksandra View Post
    The internet has never been private. With or without the NSA.
    I would argue internet privacy is far more nuanced than you give it credit for.

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