NSA works with Microsoft, Google, Facebook, etc. to collect all your data

[Melena]

Because they are really going to advertise how they catch someone. Lets just tell all the terrorists how the last one was caught so they know not to do it again. Certain things will never be made public cause if the public knows, then everyone knows.

[Blubbartron]

Because they are really going to advertise how they catch someone. Lets just tell all the terrorists how the last one was caught so they know not to do it again. Certain things will never be made public cause if the public knows, then everyone knows.

Again, until they prove they're doing something, anything, we can't just assume that they are effective at doing it. Logic doesn't work that way. They don't need to advertise the exact way they foiled a terrorist plot, but every single foiled plot/arrest I've read about has been because of the terrorists' fuck up or somebody rolling or informing on them. Why doesn't the FBI have a list of "look at all these terrorists we stopped!"? Not even how they were stopped, just that they were. Do they honestly think that taking credit for stopping a particular terrorist would somehow expose the informant or undercover FBI agent that was most responsible for it? It's not like the other terrorists will go "oh, Ahmed was nailed by the FBI, now I'll be suspicious about all the other people in the cell that was working with him."

[Xajii]

Why don't they advertise it? Because it incites public terror you fucking moron. That's the entire goal of terrorism anyway. They WANT that publicity.

Good God your posts.

[Blubbartron]

Why don't they advertise it? Because it incites public terror you fucking moron. That's the entire goal of terrorism anyway. They WANT that publicity.

Good God your posts.

How does "look how awesome of a job we're doing stopping terrorism" make people afraid? And you're also acting like I'm saying they should be putting up this information on television during primetime. It doesn't have to be on the evening news, but the information should be available.

Stop being ridiculous.

[Xajii]

Ever watched hockey? It's like the goalie making tons of great saves, but each save your heart is pounding, and then once in a while, a puck goes in. Hell, you maintain this mentality yourself in discussing how the chance for mistakes is reason not to surveil.

That's why publicly available information on the volume of issues handled would incite terror.

Edit: media would eat that shit up if there was any way of finding it, so the other point is moot

[Ksandra]

How does "look how awesome of a job we're doing stopping terrorism" make people afraid?

By how often it happens?

Really though no need for people to feel the need to prove they can counter the fbi if the fbi puts their dick on the table like you want.

And you're also acting like I'm saying they should be putting up this information on television during primetime. It doesn't have to be on the evening news, but the information should be available.

With our technology, what's the difference?

[BerenTebogo]

Is Blubbatron for real?

Why do patents exist? Why do some fields of science routinely publish journal articles that are exceptionally vague on methodology when working in a new field?

Once you know how something was made / done / stopped / anything you can EASILY recreate it / make it better / insert analogy here.

Advertising every foiled plot would a) incite panic on a level you could only imagine b) create an open source how-to book for getting around the governments defenses.

Jesus fuck it sure is 'tarded up in here. There are a couple thousand people, maybe couple tens of thousand (but probably not) actively working on the defense of the US at a level that actually matters on any given day. If we publicized every foiled plot that means that there would be literally millions of people dreaming up potential plots, using what didn't work as stepping stones / info on what the government has the resources to do vs. a few thousand dudes who were just really good at math and logical reasoning brainstorming potential threats that might need to be thwarted.

Stuff like the shoe-bomber is publicized and made national and put in big giant print because not only was the dude a fucking moron, but the plan was so ridiculous that it has very little chance to be repeated. Government shows the people and says "look we stopped it, but to protect you in the future here's some sugar pills in the form of TSA screening" and goes about their business. Nobody is going to build off the thwarting of the shoe-bomber. And besides, any person with a high school degree who wants to inflict massive loss of life just needs a handgun and a mall on a Saturday night or a NYC subway car on Monday morning. You don't need a shoe bomb to be a terrorist.

All that said, if every time we thwarted cyber-terrorism or bio-terrorism and said "HEY LOOK AT US" it only exposes more holes in the defenses of the country.

Hell, I'm going to go even further and FFXI analogy this shit since this still is BG: Back in the day, how were new HNM like Tiamat / Shadow VNM Dragon / Dyn Tav etc won? By people getting fucked in the face (failing) and sharing the data on what DIDN'T work and people tried new things until something DID work. If nobody ever shared any data, and no knowledge of what didn't work was passed around, do you think it would have taken more or less time for them to become routinely farmable across all servers?

Analogies motherfuckers, I got acres of them.

[Blubbartron]

I'm sorry, but I honestly don't believe that a single one of you would be more afraid if you found out how many actual imminent threats were prevented. I'm not talking about details, or how close it was to happening. Just a number. Do you feel more afraid when you hear that there were X muggings in your city/county/state? Or Y murders? or Z rapes? Personally, I don't, because the numbers are always fairly low, unless you live in a shithole. And I can guarantee you that there is WAY more violent crime happening all around you, all the time, than there are terrorist plots that get thwarted. Stop being so fucking irrational.

Sath - pretty sure I've stated multiple times that they don't need to release details on how someone was stopped. Whether they release the details or not doesn't change the fact that the terrorists working with the guy(s) who got caught will know they got stopped and what he was doing. Knowing a name doesn't do anything for you unless you somehow find out exactly what he was up to (like by talking to his terrorist cohorts).

Shit's getting retarded up in here, and I find it incredibly ironic that people think it's me. Use your brains, folks.

[Xno Kappa]

I google searched my name and nothing came up, I'm good to go.

[Callisto]

I google searched my name and nothing came up, I'm good to go.

I google searched your name and got this:

http://stuffistolefromtheinternet.co...ficulties1.jpg

[ronin sparthos]

My concern will be where these power grabs end. Once you've started wading in the pool that information will "stop the terrorists!" then it's only a matter of time before these organizations claw for more and more access to information that should be private. You've got companies collecting data on you, the gummint wants some of that information for their own aims and you're left being pat on the head by big brother who tells you "This is all for your own good." all while the spooky boogeymen give the administration carte blanche to do whatever the hell they want in the name of national security.

Terrorism is a legitimate threat but how far does this go? You can literally justify anything under the guise of security. Soon we'll have drones flying over cities and cameras in our living quarters to monitor our well being. I kid, I kid but it's certainly not an impossibility.

We aren't addressing the causes of terrorism and the prevalence of those motivated by terror will only increase so we're left patching holes, trying to prevent attacks from happening. How much will be sacrificed in that process? Further, do the terrorists not "win" by having their opposition destroy their own civil liberties in the process?

[Cantih]

Spoiler: show

Is Blubbatron for real?

Why do patents exist? Why do some fields of science routinely publish journal articles that are exceptionally vague on methodology when working in a new field?

Once you know how something was made / done / stopped / anything you can EASILY recreate it / make it better / insert analogy here.

Advertising every foiled plot would a) incite panic on a level you could only imagine b) create an open source how-to book for getting around the governments defenses.

Jesus fuck it sure is 'tarded up in here. There are a couple thousand people, maybe couple tens of thousand (but probably not) actively working on the defense of the US at a level that actually matters on any given day. If we publicized every foiled plot that means that there would be literally millions of people dreaming up potential plots, using what didn't work as stepping stones / info on what the government has the resources to do vs. a few thousand dudes who were just really good at math and logical reasoning brainstorming potential threats that might need to be thwarted.

Stuff like the shoe-bomber is publicized and made national and put in big giant print because not only was the dude a fucking moron, but the plan was so ridiculous that it has very little chance to be repeated. Government shows the people and says "look we stopped it, but to protect you in the future here's some sugar pills in the form of TSA screening" and goes about their business. Nobody is going to build off the thwarting of the shoe-bomber. And besides, any person with a high school degree who wants to inflict massive loss of life just needs a handgun and a mall on a Saturday night or a NYC subway car on Monday morning. You don't need a shoe bomb to be a terrorist.

All that said, if every time we thwarted cyber-terrorism or bio-terrorism and said "HEY LOOK AT US" it only exposes more holes in the defenses of the country.

Hell, I'm going to go even further and FFXI analogy this shit since this still is BG: Back in the day, how were new HNM like Tiamat / Shadow VNM Dragon / Dyn Tav etc won? By people getting fucked in the face (failing) and sharing the data on what DIDN'T work and people tried new things until something DID work. If nobody ever shared any data, and no knowledge of what didn't work was passed around, do you think it would have taken more or less time for them to become routinely farmable across all servers?

Analogies motherfuckers, I got acres of them.

Sath, are you aware that modern cryptography (properly implemented) is secure BECAUSE it's done exactly opposite what you just described?
It works on the principle of being completely open about how it works, letting anybody who can go at the process with sledge hammers, and making improvements when the hammers manage to break part of it.
The end product is surprisingly, not a pile of rubble, but something that, *gasp* doesn't fall apart when you bash it with sledge hammers.

[Xajii]

Sath, are you aware that modern cryptography (properly implemented) is secure BECAUSE it's done exactly opposite what you just described?
It works on the principle of being completely open about how it works, letting anybody who can go at the process with sledge hammers, and making improvements when the hammers manage to break part of it.
The end product is surprisingly, not a pile of rubble, but something that, *gasp* doesn't fall apart when you bash it with sledge hammers.

This is only very marginally relevant and is also only true to a point. Cryptology is a small part of the NSA's function.

[Jefe]

Old. We've been going backwards for a long time. It should be: we have our privacy and a transparent government. Just stick to the Bill of Rights, would you government?

[shaggnix]

if i follow you, every time a hammer manages to break something apart and we see a potential improvement, anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand are killed/maimed? having your code cracked is one thing, but i'd rather try and keep the cracks to a minimum and do everything to strengthen/improve before it breaks when it comes to counter terrorism.

[Cantih]

Assuming you sit back and wait for real attacks to do your testing.
This is why you do things like penetration testing and military simulations. Like giving yourself a vaccine with hobbled diseases instead of a real infection.

[Melena]

We have people go pants on head retarded over sign language gun letters, you don't think the masses won't go bonkers if they knew how often people try to blow shit up. To paraphrase MIB "there is always an alien threat, gun ship, laser cannon pointed right at us and the only reason people go on with their miserable happy lives is because they do not know about it"

[Omniyoji]

One of my coworkers was still subscribed to AOL dial-up up until a month ago. She was paying almost as much as I am currently paying for broadband ($75).

Probably the most shocking bit of news in this thread...

[Blubbartron]

The sound quality sucks, but this is a highly relevant video.

[Correction]

Of all the people to post this news it had to be Maz, can we remove his ability to start threads in here?