McDonalds "Minimum wage isn't that bad, you just can't have heating, or gas, or insurance"

[GoggleHead]

Did I miss some sarcasm tags again?

[archibaldcrane]

I was speaking for the average american

I'd be up for higher taxes if we could cut military spending and increase the social safety net and/or implement single-payer health care.

[Rhinox]

how long before Test shows up?

[Talint]

I was speaking for the average american

I'd be up for higher taxes if we could cut military spending and increase the social safety net and/or implement single-payer health care.

And yet, I think the majority of Americans would agree with this sentiment, if it were efficient and decent; taxes be damned.

I could also see a case of Americans not knowing what they want.

But this, is what I took issue with:

Like I said, Sweden's welfare system is easy to abuse if you so choose to do it, bust the vast majority of us choose not to do it even though we could. Because it would be wrong, and Swedes don't like doing things that's morally wrong. And as such, we believe that most other Swedes think the same way, ergo, the system works, because in a way its a self-fulfilling prophecy. It works because we want it to work.

As if though Americans are just crazy immoral thieves who are murdering each other without repercussion.

...This is, admittedly, a very difficult argument to make in light of Trayvon Martin.

But the image of the welfare queen has been grossly exaggerated.

[Plow]

For real. It's like everyone slept through history class or something.

This is the joy of libertarianism. If you pretend that the world didn't literally start out as a libertarian paradise and develop into modern society because it was clear that shit wasn't going to cut it, you can just tell yourself "it's never been tried!"

[Ziero]

Long term employment would be nonexistent.

Fixed.

Jobs already have a habit for firing long term workers who do nothing wrong just to replace them with new people for lower pay. If they could pay you pennies to do something, they would, and if you complained, they'd just get rid of you. I know this would happen because this did happen.

I see Americans make fun of the Scandinavian system all the time.

Americans make fun of everything. Not for any logical reason, just because we're number 1!

No, I'm saying that the mentality in America is that people like to abuse the system. Whether or not it's true doesn't matter, if you believe people will abuse it ou won't want to pay the taxes required to support it. In turn, people are more prone to do it because it's already expected they will.

This is something I can understand, as I've seen it myself. People believe the system is broken, and thus go out of their way to not do anything that might actual fix it. Then they just complain about said broken system. That seems to be one of the major reasons people hate welfare systems here, they feel that everyone just abuses the system (which the vast majority do not) so paying into it is only a waste of their hard earned money that these lazy welfare babies wanna get rich off of.

While it's a stupid, selfish and incorrect stance to have, I do agree it's a very common one here.

Speak for yourself. The only reason I hate taxes is because they're way more complicated than they need to be.

I'd love to pay more taxes if it meant our society could have all the sensible social safety nets many European countries implement.

I think YOU should be speaking for YOURSELF. I actually worked with people who were literally being paid by FEMA for the Sandy Hurricane clean up efforts....and every check they'd complain about how much was being taken out in taxes. Taxes that went to things like FEMA...who were the ones paying them. I agree that I'd have no problem giving more back to my country if it meant everyone would have an increased quality of life, but I'm one of the crazy ones apparently. Most people just see the big fat MINUS sign in their paychecks, then bitch and moan about how the man is taking all their hard earned cash as they drive down public roads, drink clean water and eat food that's guaranteed to only possess the most miniscule amount of rat droppings. Taxes over here are something to be loathed and hated, screw helping your fellow man, that guy's just a lazy leech anyway!

And yet, I think the majority of Americans would agree with this sentiment, if it were efficient and decent; taxes be damned.

Your faith in your fellow man is certainly stronger then mine, and more power to you for that one.

[Kanriel]

You are dead wrong. It also helps the people who need more help than anyone else. If there was no minimum wage, businesses would suddenly find a million positions to fill that don't really make much sense right now, because they wouldn't earn/save them > $8/hr from the labor. Long term unemployment would be nonexistent.

And long term poverty would drastically increase.

Also, where in all of capitalism have you EVER seen a company create positions simply to create positions?

[hey]

Fixed.

Jobs already have a habit for firing long term workers who do nothing wrong just to replace them with new people for lower pay. If they could pay you pennies to do something, they would, and if you complained, they'd just get rid of you. I know this would happen because this did happen.

Um, who cares? Who the fuck plans to stay at a job that pays $4-7/hr long term? Anything that pays more would be completely unaffected. It would be easy to find a new job paying a similar amount, so it's not really an issue.

Also, where in all of capitalism have you EVER seen a company create positions simply to create positions?

If i could create a position that would earn me $7/hr, i would never create it under a $7.25 minimum wage, because i would lose money. However with no minimum wage, i could hire someone for $5/hr, and make $2.25/hr profit.

[Kanriel]

Um, who cares? Who the fuck plans to stay at a job that pays $4-7/hr long term? Anything that pays more would be completely unaffected. It would be easy to find a new job paying a similar amount, so it's not really an issue.
If i could create a position that would earn me $7/hr, i would never create it under a $7.25 minimum wage, because i would lose money. However with no minimum wage, i could hire someone for $5/hr, and make $2.25/hr profit.

So you're just pulling numbers out of your ass, got it.

And who plans to stay at a low wage job long term? No one. Who ends up moving past that? Not everyone. I work with a 45 year old mother of 4 who has gone from fast food job to fast food job, often working multiple jobs at once, just to make ends meet for her children. She's never had the time to get past fast food. She's a great employee too.

[Andalusian girls]

I was speaking for the average american

I'd be up for higher taxes if we could cut military spending and increase the social safety net and/or implement single-payer health care.

we only spend as much on the military as the next 14 countries combined 10 of which are formal allies

because you never know when you'll have to fight all 14 at once

[Andalusian girls]

but really a reformed tax code with capped deductions for both corporations and individuals rather than the current one which incentivizes legal evasion and adds exceptional overhead in the form of teams of lawyers and accountants and lobbyists would be more ameliorative than any shift in the current + projected rates, which are more or less in line with the historical average of 17%-20% of GDP

[Acevalefor]

Protip for the good of this thread: Do not talk about wage and hour regulations with hey. He doesn't have a clue what he is talking about.

[Kanriel]

Protip for the good of this thread: Do not talk about wage and hour regulations with hey. He doesn't have a clue what he is talking about.

This is well beyond obvious. I remember my naive libertarian days, oh how wrong I was about so many things...

[Acevalefor]

This is well beyond obvious. I remember my naive libertarian days, oh how wrong I was about so many things...

Just wait until you look back and remember your naive authoritarian days. Then you will have come full circle.

[Xantavia]

Um, not really. You can't serve Americans burgers from India. The nature of many minimum-wage jobs in America are things that can't be outsourced because they must be performed locally - retail/restaurant jobs.

Maybe not the food itself, but you can always hire a call center to take the orders.

[Uzor]

we only spend as much on the military as the next 14 countries combined 10 of which are formal allies

because you never know when you'll have to fight all 14 at once

Well, that's inaccurate. Your military is not larger than the next 14 countries combined. You spend a fuckload of money on weapon research. And there's a huge waste of money, too. Like "Oh, we still have a million dollar left on our budget until the end of the year. Quick, run the heaters full-power outside in the middle of the winter to spend the last dime!"

Considering how many countries loathe America more than anything else, I'd say you can't afford to get lazy on that front.

[BaneTheBrawler]

Yeah. How are we going to blame climate change on china and india if we stop heating the outdoors?

[Meresgi]

You are dead wrong. It also helps the people who need more help than anyone else. If there was no minimum wage, businesses would suddenly find a million positions to fill that don't really make much sense right now, because they wouldn't earn/save them > $8/hr from the labor. Long term unemployment would be nonexistent.

I'm curious about your real world experience if this is your viewpoint. Do you honestly think this would happen?....because it would never work out that way. If you let business lower pay rates they would drop them down to the lowest they can go and pocket the extra $$ while keeping everything else the same. There wouldn't suddenly be MORE jobs because businesses would say "Why do we need more positions? We already have people doing everything we need already and we can't want to train more staff and go through the hassle".

More jobs would not just suddenly spring up like magic as if the only thing holding business back right now is the horrible horrible minimum wage. Half these places pay their employees jack shit yet still feed their higher ups bonus checks every year for bullshit reasons, money they could have used to open up a few positions but didn't want to because you gotta pay on dat 3rd home in Europe bitch.

Um, who cares? Who the fuck plans to stay at a job that pays $4-7/hr long term? Anything that pays more would be completely unaffected. It would be easy to find a new job paying a similar amount, so it's not really an issue.

Nobody fucking PLANS IT, it just happens sometimes. You get fired from your job and can't find work, you have to attempt to pay the bills and don't want to sit in your ass doing nothing. You don't have an education due to w/e reason and can't get work at a factory or whatever. You have no transportation and the closest shit to you happens to be fast food chains because you live downtown somewhere and public transportation is non existent or worthless, etc etc etc.

I doubt any employee at these places if you asked them "Was this your goal" would say "FUCK YEAH I LOVE HIS JOB", no they do it to get by. Judge them all the fuck you want but keep in mind that life isn't exactly something you can plan out, shit happens you have to cope or get run over by it and make the best of what you're left with.

If i could create a position that would earn me $7/hr, i would never create it under a $7.25 minimum wage, because i would lose money. However with no minimum wage, i could hire someone for $5/hr, and make $2.25/hr profit.

The shit does this mean? Creating a position doesn't just suddenly make you money. If you need (x) amount of employees to work your building then you're going to hire x + 2 so you have maybe 2 people who are part time to cover shifts if they are needed but who won't get more then 10hrs a week usually. If you have to pay them less that doesn't mean you'll suddenly need x + 10 to do the same work or make the same profit.

[falloutboy14]

Ex McDonald’s Employee Sues Because She Doesn’t Want Her Paycheck On A Prepaid Debit Card

McDonald's forgot to include various atm/service fees in their total.

[kuronosan]

STOP FIGHTING THE SYSTEM.

edit: This is surprisingly prevalent, by the way. They hope to save money by not having to actually print paper checks or pay direct deposit fees to banks I guess.