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Thread: Monstrosity Monipulators     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #1
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    Monstrosity Monipulators

    http://bg-wiki.com/bg/Tiger_%28MON%29

    You can basically pasta the code from that onto other pages.

  2. #2
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  3. #3
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    Added DAT mined abilities. Idk if they implemented every ability, but they're there. These, I didn't add since idk would use them:

    Spoiler: show
    {{Monipulator Monsterskills Row
    |Monsterskills.Name=Preter. Gleam
    |Monsterskills.Level=
    |Monsterskills.Charge_Time=
    |Monsterskills.Yalms=
    |Monsterskills.Area=
    |Monsterskills.Targets=
    |Monsterskills.TP=
    |Monsterskills.Description=Deals light damage to enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from caster. Additional effects: Paralysis, Mute.
    }}
    {{Monipulator Monsterskills Row
    |Monsterskills.Name=Chupa Blossom
    |Monsterskills.Level=
    |Monsterskills.Charge_Time=
    |Monsterskills.Yalms=
    |Monsterskills.Area=
    |Monsterskills.Targets=
    |Monsterskills.TP=
    |Monsterskills.Description=Steals HP, all attribute values, and beneficial effects of enemies around caster.
    }}
    {{Monipulator Monsterskills Row
    |Monsterskills.Name=Booming Bomb.
    |Monsterskills.Level=
    |Monsterskills.Charge_Time=
    |Monsterskills.Yalms=
    |Monsterskills.Area=
    |Monsterskills.Targets=
    |Monsterskills.TP=
    |Monsterskills.Description=Deals light damage to enemies around the caster. Additional effects: Defense Down, Magic Def. Down, and Plague. Grants the effect of "Haste".
    }}
    {{Monipulator Monsterskills Row
    |Monsterskills.Name=Keratinous Crush
    |Monsterskills.Level=
    |Monsterskills.Charge_Time=
    |Monsterskills.Yalms=
    |Monsterskills.Area=
    |Monsterskills.Targets=
    |Monsterskills.TP=
    |Monsterskills.Description=Deals earth damage to enemies within a fan-shaped area originating from caster. Additional effect: Petrify.
    }}

  4. #4
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    Okay, the last four are on the wiki now.

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    I added automatic linking to the Monster pages, so as soon as an "<Ability Name> (MON)" page is made, the link will create itself. Be aware that this might take a few minutes due to caching.

    Example: https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Rabbit_%28MON%29

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    I added automatic linking to the Monster pages, so as soon as an "<Ability Name> (MON)" page is made, the link will create itself. Be aware that this might take a few minutes due to caching.

    Example: https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Rabbit_%28MON%29
    Using that page as an example, perhaps there should be an extra column on the monsterskills part showing species restriction? Wild Ginseng is only available to white rabbit for example.

  7. #7
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    To display that, we use the abilities list for each species (The four pink tables).

  8. #8
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    Sorry just noticed the Species notes

  9. #9
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    I'm not sure what we're supposed to do with the traits fields on these Monster pages. They're going to be really big and bloated for MainJob/MainJob monsters if we actually try to fill them out. For now I'm just putting in TP moves.

    Nevermind, can't get them to work with multiple lines either.

  10. #10
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    Traits is just for mob traits (ex: Resists petrification) . We can link job traits fairly easy. For abilities, you just list them using commas (ex: Whirl, Kick, Other ability, etc). If you indent and use #, you should see the note appear.

  11. #11
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    Species notes just seem useless, unless you mean like diremites having innate resistance to sleep or scorps resistance to poison, because the traits are going to be defined by job.

    Why not just add an extra column titled "Species Restriction" and list what species the JA/WS is available on? I tried to copy the code to make an example, but yeah, im bad at that.
    Code:
    Monsterskills
    Name		 Lv.	 TP	 Species	CT	 Yalms	 Area	 Targets	 Description
    Foot Kick	 1	 100	 All		Instant			 Single		 Deals critical damage.
    Dust Cloud	 10	 80	 Base					 Conal		 Deals earth damage to enemies...
    Whirl Claws	 20	 180	 All					 AoE		 Deals 200% physical damage to all...
    Wild Carrot	 30	 100	 All					 Self	 	 Restores caster's HP.
    Snow Cloud	 50	 100	 White					 Conal		 Deals ice damage to enemies ...
    Wild Ginseng	 50	 100	 White					 Self		 Grants the effects of "Blink," "Ha...

    or instead of listing which species it can use by name, can either numericize the species up top and list it like that, or have little species icons representing which can and cant use a move.

  12. #12
    Yoshi P
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    I would put it all the way on the right side of the table but yeah, I think that makes more sense than listing most of the same moves over and over like we have now. I would replace the existing monster skills column with stat multipliers maybe. We're also still missing size/movement speed from the top table.

    For the traits, it means resistances/immunities/whatever that's specific to monster families/species, not jobs. Like peiste has extreme resistance to slow/poison/petrify that you would put there. How should we word these type of resistances thou? They're just high meva to those statuses, not "Resist!" type job traits or gear/instincts. Putting down "Resist Petrify" or whatever would imply the latter.

  13. #13
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    Traits is as you described (Diremite resistance to sleep; Sasori resistance to poison, etc). They're used to detail mob-specific traits rather than existing traits.

    I considered species per ability but found these problems with them:
    Icons: Much more work for us and users would need to find the icon and paste if the icon isn't there already

    List species: Too much of a wild card. We have an undefined number of models attached to an undefined number of TP moves. In some cases, nearly every model could use an ability and other instances would have a limited selection of models with an abilities. That means, at some point, the list becomes crowded. Since we're trying to limit vertical space (Each ability should take a single line unless the description exceeds that), we wish to avoid designs that would exceed single lines.

    Quicker abilities reference: Players can skim through a list of abilities instead of

    Redundancy: Typically, there are more abilities than species, so the decision is between paste 1-4x and paste 1-8x.

    Numeric lists: This could work, but there are some concerns. First, this complicates the information because you need to find the ability, find the numerical species value, and then find the key that details the meaning of each numerical value (Unless, for whatever reason, you've arbitrarily memorized the numerical value of the species). Two, users need to understand and add the species number each time they add a species. Species name, main, and sub are common terms, but they may not realize that the number used is arbitrary (Insofar as no other species shares that number), so they may choose to ignore that field.

    Similar to ingame experience: Within the game, the player can view abilities per species. However, a list of species per ability requires you to go through each species and check for an ability or check each species and compare the list of abilities to see if a species doesn't access that ability. For instance:

    Check Rabbit > Write abilities > Add to species list (Complete this with one check for each species)

    v

    Check Abilities list > Check each species individually > Write whether the species has that ability or write a complete list > Repeat for each species/ability (Requires multiple checks) or Compare list for each ability (Requires the list comparison and easier for individual to skim past or miss an ability)

    Edit: As for multipliers, we prefer to keep that to the individual mechanics page to avoid redundancy. The less we have to add per ability, the better. The movement speed is a trait, so that has a section. Perhaps if we renamed "Traits" to "Notes" that would make the section clearer.

  14. #14
    Yoshi P
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    When I say multipliers I mean the bonus/penalty % atk/def (and I assume acc/eva) that different families/species have. I guess you could put those as 'traits' like movement speed and size, but that all seems silly to me, when every mob has a speed/size/stat multipliers. Why wouldn't those just have their own column somewhere?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yugl View Post
    List species: Too much of a wild card. We have an undefined number of models attached to an undefined number of TP moves. In some cases, nearly every model could use an ability and other instances would have a limited selection of models with an abilities. That means, at some point, the list becomes crowded. Since we're trying to limit vertical space (Each ability should take a single line unless the description exceeds that), we wish to avoid designs that would exceed single lines.
    How is the current format going to work for families that have a ton of species? I mean, do we really need six different TP move tables for mandragora, instead of just setting aside a column for notes like 'adenium only'?

  15. #15
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    The more we specify, the more have to reedit when new shit pops up. Existing equation broken? New tables. Multiplier turns out to be two pieces? New tables. Each time we have to add to the table, we need to edit the table template, the row template, and then run through every page and add new variables to avoid broken tables (Remove one of the |Species.X lines to see what I mean). A quick browse at the abilities thread indicates we have merely speculation about abilities (See Byrth's post). I'm not sure what you're asking, specifically, in regards to ability. A general "Multipliers" section makes zero sense without context. If you mean stuff like "Has has attack" or "Has high evasion", they're precisely the type of stuff we use notes to achieve.

    Mob size and speed is doable within the first table, but speed, in particular, is an arbitrary distinction from traits/notes.

    A general notes section for abilities is ambiguous. Is the section blank because every mob receives the ability or because the no one edit the section? Just because users add an ability, that doesn't mean they contribute the entirety of information about that ability. That's the same reason we added question marks to bestiary pages instead of leaving them blank.

    In short, mob size addition is fine. Mechanics should stay either with the respective ability page or a generic mechanics page when the details appear (Generic paged is better for comparison purposes). Generic notes per ability is ambiguous for readers because they don't know whether the cell lacks edits or if the ability applies to every species. Finally, much of this is asking for a major rewrite of these pages; yet, very few of them even have contributions. There's little motivation to waste my evening exporting and revamping templates, pages, and variables if no one is going to bother editing them.