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Thread: The crafting thread.     submit to reddit submit to twitter submit to tumblr

  1. #1
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    The crafting thread.

    edit: Here's an updated assessment of the cross-class crafting skills...

    S tier (game-changers):
    Byregot's Blessing (CRP50, 24CP)- Converts Inner Quiet stacks into quality gains and removes Inner Quiet (IQ control bonuses remain). This skill allows you to finish HQ synths at approximately 50% of the quality bar (with Great Strides). It is also a key component to "guaranteed HQ" scripted synths.
    Hasty Touch (CUL15)- In combination with Steady Hand (preferably SHII), Hasty Touch lets you grind out quality without draining your CP, as it's the only quality-add ability with no CP cost (only durability). It's particularly useful for synths that are still challenging, or if you have a low CP gear build.
    Tricks of the Trade (ALC15)- TotT allows you to convert Good condition into 20CP, which (particularly when used with Hasty Touch) lets you string out synths for super long grinds. Near the beginning of a synth (when your Inner Quiet hasn't yet gotten enough stacks to give you large quality gains), it's amazing.

    A tier (extremely useful):
    Careful Synthesis I/II (WVR15/50)- Both of these progress-gain skills are essential for their 100% success rate, which allows you to plan for progress completion without worrying about bad luck or reserve CP. You should definitely have at least CS.
    Comfort Zone (ALC50, 66CP)- 66CP cost, 80CP return (over 10 turns), 14CP net. The extra CP is obviously useful, but CZ also serves an important purpose in putting some space in your CP bar (in the early part of a synth) so that you can take advantage of any TotT procs.
    Ingenuity I/II (BSM15/50, 24/32CP)- These skills are primarily for increasing the progress and quality gains on */** recipes (by lowering them to LV50/47), and they work very well for that. Never use them on a recipe below your level, as (for a LV50) they will RAISE the recipe to LV50/47.
    Manipulation (GSM15, 88CP)- Restores 10 durability per turn for 3 turns; this is calculated AFTER durability actions, so if you use this at 10 durability and perform a durability consuming action next, you will botch the synth (because you hit 0 before you get 10 back).This is the second-most CP efficient durability restorer (behind Master's Mend II) and unlike MMII, is feasible for 40 durability recipes. It's also very useful in planning ahead; at 30/40 durability, you can use Manipulation -> SHII and use all five turns of SHII, which you cannot do with the lump sum durability restorers.
    Steady Hand II (CUL37, 25CP)- Success rate+30%. Steady Hand I (+20%) is good, but Steady Hand II turns Basic Touch into a guaranteed action (essential for guaranteed HQ scripts) and makes Hasty Touch much more reliable.
    Waste Not I (LTW15, 56CP)- 50% durability reduction for next 4 turns. Strictly speaking, it's a better CP/durability ratio than Manipulation; since the game treats 5 durability the same as 10 durability at the end of a synth, you can actually use a non-durability action during one of the 4 turns and still get the same effective durability reduction.

    B tier (situational accessories):
    Innovation (GSM50, 18CP)- Control+50% for the next three steps. In most situations where you want the extra control, Ingenuity is probably going to do more for you than Innovation will. You can stack this with Great Strides for an even more powerful Byregot's, though.
    Rumination (CRP15)- Converts Inner Quiet stacks into CP and removes Inner Quiet (IQ control bonuses remain). The CP return on this skill was lowered considerably from beta (it now gives 59CP for 10 IQ stacks). If you don't have Byregot's, you can use Rumination if you've completed your quality phase and you need CP to finish your progress. If you do have Byregot's, the only real purpose for Rumination is...
    Reclaim (CUL50, 55CP)- Grants 90% chance of ingredient recovery on a botched (not canceled!) synth. If you've had a horrible run of luck and it's HQ-or-bust, you can use Reclaim as a reset button. Be advised that Rumination will give 54CP for 9 IQ stacks.
    Brand of [element] (various37, 15CP)- These are currently only useful for Vintage gear recipes, which have elemental instability that greatly reduces standard progress gains.

    C tier (gimmicks):
    Flawless Synthesis (GSM37, 15CP)- Gain 40 progress. It has some use at very low levels, but 15 CP for a progress ability with only 90% success rate is not a good deal when CS/CSII are 100% and cost 0 CP.
    Waste Not II (LTW50, 98CP)- In order for this skill to be more CP/durability efficient than Manipulation, you have to use at least 7 durability-consuming actions in 8 consecutive turns. This is basically never practical.

    F tier (Armorer):
    any ARM ability- they suck and are useless

    ---
    Some resources:

    - list of which AF is crafted by which class
    - still-mostly-accurate crafting reference guide from beta4
    - spreadsheet with materia caps and optimal melds for all slots (except militia offhand, which cannot be fully capped in 5 melds)
    - materia melding guide with less T4 materia (but more forbidden melds)
    - list of items needed to turn in for crafting class quests

    Progress formula:
    Progress = round ( (1 + 0.05 * recipe level difference) * (0.21 * Craftsmanship + 1.6) )
    • For every level a recipe is above you, up to 5 above, you take a 10% penalty to progress.
    • For every level a recipe is below you, up to 5 below, you gain a 5% bonus to progress.
    • For every addition level greater than 5 level below you, you gain another 2-2.5% (needs refinement) bonus to progress, until 15 levels below you.
    • After 15 levels, it continues to gradually increase until around 55% bonus

    Quality formula:
    Quality = round ( (1 - 0.05 * recipe level difference) * (0.36 * Control + 34) )
    Level difference is only a quality penalty for recipes above your level, never a bonus for recipes below your level.

    100% HQ script for 50** recipes:
    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1p8t6q/the_100_hq_0_rng_2_star_rotation/
    Min Req: 50 WVR, 50 CRP, 37 CUL, 15 BSM, 15 LTW
    357 Craftsmanship, ~344 Control, 355 CP (341 if 50 Alch)

    IQ > CS II > WN > SH2 > Basic Touch x 5 > GS > SH > Ing > Std Touch > GS > Byregots > CS II x 2

  2. #2
    Nidhogg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    Does the CUL50 ability just make it so your failed synth has a 90% chance of returning your mats, for free? Does it last for a certain number of turns?
    I see no reason for it to have a turn requirement. If it did, anyone with half a brain could save it for the last 10 durability, and guarantee it anyway.

    Here's my two questions.

    1) Do abilities that don't affect progress/durability/quality use up a buff tick? For example, if I use Waste Not, then follow that with Ingenuity (or vice versa) do I essentially lose a turn off of the first buff?

    2) Can abilities that don't affect progress/durability/quality still change the synthesis orb color? I mainly ask, because if it works like that, you could essentially use the CUL50 ability in place of a single Observe and not spend any CP.

  3. #3
    Old Merits
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    1) Yes.
    2) 90% sure it's a yes as well.

  4. #4
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    Definitely a yes to question 2, as you have to camp TotT (and potentially lose a buff tick) while executing your various buff sequences. I start most every (meaningful) synth with Comfort Zone>Inner Quiet>Steady Hand>Hasty Touch, but I can't just mindlessly 1234 it because I have to watch for TotT between each step.

    As for question 1, I believe that's specifically the reason that Great Strides is "up" for three turns but is consumed by your first quality synth.

  5. #5
    Dammit Steve of the House of Weave
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    Definitely a yes to question 2, as you have to camp TotT (and potentially lose a buff tick) while executing your various buff sequences. I start most every (meaningful) synth with Comfort Zone>Inner Quiet>Steady Hand>Hasty Touch, but I can't just mindlessly 1234 it because I have to watch for TotT between each step.

    As for question 1, I believe that's specifically the reason that Great Strides is "up" for three turns but is consumed by your first quality synth.
    So is this mostly how everyone is crafting? This is basically the same thing that I came up with playing around yesterday and it seems to work pretty well. Comfort Zone > Inner Quiet > Careful synth to one synth away from complete if needed > steady hand > hasty touch. Popping tricks of the trade whenever it's up and Manipulation when I drop 20-30 durability. Toss in rumination when you need that extra cp to keep on going. I tried messing with the reduce 50% durability ability but it seems like a waste keeping it up when you need to pop TotT or CZ. Also tried using the ability to buff your next action eff. by 150% but that kinda seemed like a waste too.

  6. #6
    Caesar Salad
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    More often then not I'm finding steady hand to be a waste, since most synths arent difficult enough to warrent it (I'm assuming the end game items might benefit from it versus just a basic touch). Also, I'm getting farther with out Inner Quiet then with, which bothers me. I've stopped using it and just using the extra basic touch; more often then not I get farther any ways.

  7. #7
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    You absolutely have to use Inner Quiet, if only for the free CP on Rumination. The control bonuses are also noticeable; your quality gains snowball.

    I like using Steady Hand just because it puts Hasty Touch at the same success rate as Basic Touch. With Inner Quiet up, failed quality synths are not just wasted durability, they are also wasted CP (through Rumination), so you want to succeed on them as much as possible.

    I originally thought Waste Not (50% durability loss for 4 turns, 56CP cost) was a waste, but it turns out that it's not. It's accurate to point out that a TotT proc means that you lose one of your (costly) -dura turns, but the cool thing is that 5 durability remaining is just as good as 10 in this game, so 35 dura is basically the same as 40. That means that if your 4 Waste Not turns are synth/synth/TotT/synth, it's the same effective durability outcome as synth/synth/synth/synth. (And if it's synth/TotT/synth/TotT, you got 10 durability for 16 net CP cost; still a great deal.) That being said, I tend to use Waste Not at the beginning when I have lots of CP to burn and I want to avoid overflow on a bunch of TotT procs.

    Right now, I'm trying to figure out if there's a way to calculate the amount of progress you will gain from Basic Synthesis (or in my case, Careful Synthesis II) based on difficultly vs. craftsmanship(?) or control(?). On low-level crafts I know I'll complete it in one CS2, and on high-level crafts I can start out with one CS2 and calculate how many turns I'll need, but it's stuff in the LV30s that I'm worried about completing it on my first CS2, yet I also need to know whether I need to leave 10 durability remaining or 20.

  8. #8
    Melee Summoner
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    Speaking of snowballing, if Carpenter level 50 ability works the way XIVDB says it does (i.e. it applies but does not consume the bonus from inner quiet) then I'm pretty sure Byregot's blessing for long, complex synths will become vastly superior. A similar thing could be said of the Blacksmith level 15 ability (250% progress ability) simply because it is hyper efficient. Assuming Byregot's snowballs in conjunction with other abilities, you could achieve very high quality bonuses rather quickly.

  9. #9
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmyus View Post
    Speaking of snowballing, if Carpenter level 50 ability works the way XIVDB says it does (i.e. it applies but does not consume the bonus from inner quiet) then I'm pretty sure Byregot's blessing for long, complex synths will become vastly superior.
    I'm pretty sure Byregot's does consume Inner Quiet. (edit: it does)

    A similar thing could be said of the Blacksmith level 15 ability (250% progress ability) simply because it is hyper efficient.
    Presuming you mean ARM and not BSM (15BSM is lowers recipe to current level for 5 turns), the ARM abilities both appear to be pretty bad. 250% progress at 50% success rate is not a particularly good deal compared to CS/CS2, particularly since the recipes on which 250% progress would be valuable are also recipes on which success rate will already be a concern. You'd probably have to burn Ingenuity+Steady Hand to make it worthwhile, and I don't know the total CP costs of all of that.

  10. #10
    Dammit Steve of the House of Weave
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    At 50 on my DoH classes using a cobalt main tool and militia off hand I'm basically able to HQ all recipes(sub 1 start of course) using the method I posted above. I'm going around doing all the class quests to collect the blue tools. At first I was collecting HQ ingredients but now I'm seeing that's basically a waste. Once I get into the 40+ zone though I usually try to use at least one HQ material(if it's easy and I have the mats on hand) just to ensure 100% HQ rate. Otherwise I'll get anywhere from 70-100% HQ rate on NQ materials for those synths almost all the time. It's funny how it's actually easier to HQ final items instead of materials due to the increased durability pool.

  11. #11
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrstyCptSteveWitherspoon View Post
    At 50 on my DoH classes using a cobalt main tool and militia off hand I'm basically able to HQ all recipes(sub 1 start of course) using the method I posted above.
    Have you tried a 50* or 50** yet?

    I tried a 50* last night (twinthread) with Electrum Needle+1 and Militia Wheel; starting with NQ mats, it took a mighty effort to reach 10% HQ (no luck on that). In 1.0 I had something pretty close to the best non-multimeld gear you can get, and I had to eat +crfshp food to pass the floor.

  12. #12
    Dammit Steve of the House of Weave
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    Yea I've done a bunch of 50*. For the most part now with the 50* offhands and lv 50 quest tools I can do 10-30% with NQ mats.

  13. #13
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    Some more info:

    Looks like Good condition grants ~+65% bonus to quality increases during that turn.
    Condition bonuses/penalties do not apply to progress increases.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    Have you tried a 50* or 50** yet?

    I tried a 50* last night (twinthread) with Electrum Needle+1 and Militia Wheel; starting with NQ mats, it took a mighty effort to reach 10% HQ (no luck on that). In 1.0 I had something pretty close to the best non-multimeld gear you can get, and I had to eat +crfshp food to pass the floor.
    i average 15-20% with NQ mats. I don't think it's hard to reach the floor for 1 star crafts. 2 stars will be a different, can't reach them without multi-melds for sure.

  15. #15
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    So I spent about 10 minutes total in the beta crafting and I started at looking to regear my character starting with WVR then LTW then CRP then the other crafts in some undetermined order. Does anyone have a gear list / lodestone link of what they are using or what they are heading towards? Also, is there any info out there on what the materia stat caps are for specific gear? I don't believe I saw it on XIVDB.

  16. #16
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serdapi View Post
    i average 15-20% with NQ mats. I don't think it's hard to reach the floor for 1 star crafts. 2 stars will be a different, can't reach them without multi-melds for sure.
    Yeah, I made myself some HQ AF and 50* floor is taken care of. I also made some small strategy changes (more targeted use of Byregot's) and was able to increase my HQ rate.

    There was an image floating around a while ago with a chart of which class makes which crafting/gathering AF, but I can't find it. Anyone else seen it?

  17. #17
    Melee Summoner
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    Also another pro-tip,

    The bonus you get from "good" or "excellent" apply to Byregot's blessing.

  18. #18
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    Yeah, they apply to any +quality action, as far as I can tell.

    Another ProTip: if you get Excellent condition, stop whatever you are doing and immediately use your biggest +quality action. Huge, huge gains.

  19. #19
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    For those still leveling crafting (works for gathering too, but this is the crafting thread >.>), the supply missions for the grand company are quite good exp and decent seals that you can get everyday. Even better if you turn in an HQ item since it gives 50% more. Exp/seal gain seems to be based on the level you are in a crafting class since it automatically gives you an item to craft near your current level.

    You can also check all the current items required for the turn ins in the Timers menu (it is in the bottom row, third one from the left? Forgot its name and can't check while at work).

  20. #20
    The Spooniest of Bards
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    I enjoy supply missions a bunch. My only qualm is the achievement is really 5k? You can do 8/day, no? Do they expect us to get an earring in a couple years? Even worse for gathering classes!