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  1. #221
    Chram
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    Xerlic Jilrak
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    I'm new to crafting and have 15 CUL and 15 ALC. I'm currently working on getting the 15 CC actions and I'm probably going to get both GSM and LTR to 15, but was wondering what people's thoughts are on Manipulation versus Waste Not from a leveling perspective.

    Waste Not seems to be the most efficient in terms of Durability/CP, but this drops once you have to do an action that doesn't consume Durability. I've read that you still get to get the last action at 5 durability even if Waste Not falls off, so there's that to consider.

  2. #222
    Old Odin
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    Seravi Edalborez
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    Hoooooleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssshhhiiiiiittttttttt son.

    Found the lvl 25 CUL level for chamomile tea, by a stroke of luck I happened to have a bunch of chamomile from when I was out doing BTN class quests (I just gathered a bunch on a hunch basically) and the other 2 ingredients I could get from NPCs.

    9 HQ tea for 3 turn-ins makes 75k (+~30k from making them) per leve, run upstairs, get leve again, repeat.

    This isn't gonna be so bad after all.
    Get used to that one, as the 30 triples are kind of ass (Cornmeal 40 dura, or Baked Sole).

    @Xer:

    Manipulation
    +Still getting benefit even on turns when you're not using up Dura
    ~Gains Dura instead of just using less
    -Useless at 10 or under Dura unless you have enough CP to use something else
    *This is because Dura subtracts, checks if 0, then adds, then next turn
    -Higher CP cost

    Waste Not
    +Less CP
    +Can use 3/4 of active turns and still get full value
    ~Only uses up less Dura instead of generating more, so more useful in the early stages
    -Wasted on turns without Dura-lowering actions

    Personally I use Manip more often. Anytime I'm down 20-30 Dura, pop it. Very slightly more efficient CP-wise than Master's Mend I.

  3. #223

    Quote Originally Posted by Seravi Edalborez View Post
    Get used to that one, as the 30 triples are kind of ass (Cornmeal 40 dura, or Baked Sole).
    At least cornmeal only has 1 ingredient, I'll take it.

    Might be less exp/synth/leve and harder to HQ but it's quicker synths/completions overall (sitting on 95+ leves, not concerned with efficiency in that regard).

  4. #224
    Relic Horn
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    Xanthe Celaeno
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    I can verify a data point for the progress formula posted above. ARM25, 166 craftsmanship synthing level 20 Ironclad Bronze Bucklers gives 46 progress on Basic Synthesis. (0.21 * 166) + 1.6 = 36.46 base progress, 0.05 * 5 = 0.25 level correction bonus, 1.25 * 36.46 = 45.575 which rounds up to 46 progress.

  5. #225
    Smells like Onions
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    Here are some lowbie data points for CRP for progress using Basic Synth. The case with LDiff = 0 works, but the residuals for the case where 0 < Ldiff <= 5 are big.

    Code:
    Ldiff = 0	P = round(0.21*Craftsmanship + 1.6)						
    Lvl	iLVL	LDiff	C	P		Pred P	Err
    12	12	0	83	19		19	0
    12	12	0	56	13		13	0
    12	12	0	30	8		8	0
    13	13	0	56	13		13	0
    							
    							
    0 < LDiff <= 5	P = round(0.05 * LDiff + 0.21* Craftsmanship + 1.6)					
    Lvl	iLVL	LDiff	C	P		Pred P	Err
    13	12	1	83	20		19	-1
    13	12	1	56	14		13	-1
    13	12	1	30	8		8	0
    12	8	4	83	23		19	-4
    12	8	4	56	16		14	-2
    12	8	4	30	9		8	-1
    13	8	5	83	24		19	-5
    13	8	5	56	17		14	-3
    13	8	5	30	10		8	-2
    13	11	2	83	21		19	-2

  6. #226
    Hydra
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokyst View Post
    Here are some lowbie data points for CRP for progress using Basic Synth. The case with LDiff = 0 works, but the residuals for the case where 0 < Ldiff <= 5 are big.

    Spoiler: show
    Code:
    Ldiff = 0	P = round(0.21*Craftsmanship + 1.6)						
    Lvl	iLVL	LDiff	C	P		Pred P	Err
    12	12	0	83	19		19	0
    12	12	0	56	13		13	0
    12	12	0	30	8		8	0
    13	13	0	56	13		13	0
    							
    							
    0 < LDiff <= 5	P = round(0.05 * LDiff + 0.21* Craftsmanship + 1.6)					
    Lvl	iLVL	LDiff	C	P		Pred P	Err
    13	12	1	83	20		19	-1
    13	12	1	56	14		13	-1
    13	12	1	30	8		8	0
    12	8	4	83	23		19	-4
    12	8	4	56	16		14	-2
    12	8	4	30	9		8	-1
    13	8	5	83	24		19	-5
    13	8	5	56	17		14	-3
    13	8	5	30	10		8	-2
    13	11	2	83	21		19	-2
    The level adjustment is a multiplier of the base progress, not added to it, like this for 0 to 5:

    Code:
    P = round( (1 + 0.05 * LDiff) * (0.21 * Crafts + 1.6) )
    Which makes your results:

    Code:
    Lvl	iLVL	LDiff	C	P		Pred P	Err
    13	12	1	83	20		20	0
    13	12	1	56	14		14	0
    13	12	1	30	8		8	0
    12	8	4	83	23		23	0
    12	8	4	56	16		16	0
    12	8	4	30	9		9	0
    13	8	5	83	24		24	0
    13	8	5	56	17		17	0
    13	8	5	30	10		10	0
    13	11	2	83	21		21	0
    Thanks for the data points though, I'll add them in to see if I can refine the base progress formula a bit more.

    If people like, I can upload the spreadsheet I've been working with to Google Drive or something for download, though I'm not certain the linear regressions will work there.

  7. #227
    Smells like Onions
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rehwyn View Post
    The level adjustment is a multiplier of the base progress, not added to it, like this for 0 to 5:

    Code:
    P = round( (1 + 0.05 * LDiff) * (0.21 * Crafts + 1.6) )
    Wow, I completely misread that. Thanks for setting me straight

  8. #228
    New Spam Forum
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    Since Byregot's Blessing consumes Inner Quiet, does it gain the bonus from Inner Quiet too? Say when you have 5 stack of Inner Quiet, do you get +100% from Inner Quiet and 150%+100% from Byregot's? Or is the skill just a cheap replacement of Advanced Touch?

  9. #229
    Hydra
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cybaster View Post
    Since Byregot's Blessing consumes Inner Quiet, does it gain the bonus from Inner Quiet too? Say when you have 5 stack of Inner Quiet, do you get +100% from Inner Quiet and 150%+100% from Byregot's? Or is the skill just a cheap replacement of Advanced Touch?
    It'd be 100%+100% (5*20%) for Byregot's Blessing, but it uses the Control at the level boosted by Inner Quiet. So yes, it benefits from Inner Quiet both in terms of the boosted touch efficiency and the boosted control.

    EDIT: Also, Inner Quiet is a 20% boost per stack to Control, not Quality. Because of the way the formula works, that means you get less than 20% quality boost per stack (the actual amount you get varies depending on your base control).

  10. #230
    New Spam Forum
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    Ah, thanks for the explanation, didn't realize it starts at 100% too. But it still looks like a killer move, definitely worth leveling for.

  11. #231
    Cake Mix
    Sweaty Dick Punching Enthusiast

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    http://eorzeareborn.com/map/

    not sure if it's old or not, if so ignore it, but found it last night. Great stuff.

  12. #232
    Ridill
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    Sath Fenrir
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    So I just want to ask a quick summary question:

    For any serious attempts at HQing ilvl70 items I really need Ingenuity II to erase the massive quality / progress penalties from the level difference, correct?

    I'm currently GSM50 and working on CRP to 50 then ALC to 50, but if BSM is 100% required maybe I'll put BSM before ALC.

  13. #233
    Hydra
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    Quote Originally Posted by SathFenrir View Post
    So I just want to ask a quick summary question:

    For any serious attempts at HQing ilvl70 items I really need Ingenuity II to erase the massive quality / progress penalties from the level difference, correct?

    I'm currently GSM50 and working on CRP to 50 then ALC to 50, but if BSM is 100% required maybe I'll put BSM before ALC.
    It'd be useful to at least get Ingenuity I if you do not already have it (this and leatherworking to 15 are the next things on my agenda after 50 CRP). While not quite as effective in terms of progression, it is equal in terms of quality to Ingenuity II. Whether or not Ingenuity II would be worthwile entirely depends on if that little extra progress boost would reduce the synthesis steps needed or not.

    I have not had the opportunity to test ilvl 70 items to see exactly how the penalties work for ilvl above 55 because my Weaver isn't geared enough yet. I can't imagine the penalties become less severe, though it may reach a cap or level off some.

  14. #234
    Relic Shield
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    I've never really used I since BSM was my first craft to 50, but II is definitely more than "a little extra progress". My careful synth IIs go to 104 per use with it up on 2-star synths (keeping in mind 2-stars are 233 total, so I always finish in 3 hits, with only the first 2 requiring Ingenuity up).

  15. #235
    Hydra
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelan? View Post
    I've never really used I since BSM was my first craft to 50, but II is definitely more than "a little extra progress". My careful synth IIs go to 104 per use with it up on 2-star synths (keeping in mind 2-stars are 233 total, so I always finish in 3 hits, with only the first 2 requiring Ingenuity up).
    I meant that, based on the recent testing I did on progress, Ingenuity II is 15% more progress from a synthesis compared to Ingenuity I, which is not nearly as drastic a difference as not using either. Hence my recommendation that Ingenuity I is definitely worth getting, since even on a one-star ilvl 55 recipe it's going to double your progress. And, as I said, I have not tested the exact penalties of two-star synths, but I'd be very surprised if it's less than one-star.

    Using your progress of 104 as an example, with Ingenuity I instead you would have either 90 or 91 progress depending on rounding. This is still a 3 synth finish for your 233 total (and for less CP, I might add), though it'd make it necessary for all 3 synths to occur during Ingenuity.

  16. #236
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post
    Hoooooleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssshhhiiiiiittttttttt son.

    Found the lvl 25 CUL level for chamomile tea, by a stroke of luck I happened to have a bunch of chamomile from when I was out doing BTN class quests (I just gathered a bunch on a hunch basically) and the other 2 ingredients I could get from NPCs.

    9 HQ tea for 3 turn-ins makes 75k (+~30k from making them) per leve, run upstairs, get leve again, repeat.

    This isn't gonna be so bad after all.
    I'll raise you:

    Spoiler: show
    From LV31 to LV33 in 1 minute? I'm down.
    http://viperbeam.com/ffxiv/2lv1min.png

  17. #237
    Relic Shield
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rehwyn View Post
    though it'd make it necessary for all 3 synths to occur during Ingenuity.
    That's kind of a problem, I prefer always being one (zero CP cost) synth away from finishing just in case shit goes wrong somewhere. I'd consider that a 4 synth finish. But I get your point about even I being super useful.

  18. #238

    I have not read it anywhere but whats the best way to get the 255 control requirement of certain synths?

    I got full AF but dont think i am anywhere near that.

  19. #239
    BG's most likeable Québécois
    Pens win! Pens Win!!! PENS WIN!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by NEmINIS View Post
    I have not read it anywhere but whats the best way to get the 255 control requirement of certain synths?

    I got full AF but dont think i am anywhere near that.
    Get full hq af and accessory + the lv 50 tool and the hq sub tool

    And then 2-3 materias

  20. #240
    Melee Summoner
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    Just starting the Crafting game and finding it surprisingly fun. What kind of recommendations are there for priority of obtaining the lvl 15's, then 50s?
    So far Im armorer 30, and realized that is indeed useless to cross class.
    Now Alc 15, Cul 15, and working on weaver, 14 already.
    I was thinking Goldsmith next?