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Thread: Pugilist/monk discussion     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #21

    I see a lot of extended rotations, as if you gotta write down that much shit down to remember to not be a bad, but I do not see anyone mentioning Howling Fist? It's your longest cool down weaponskill and should be going off as early as possible to maximize dps.

  2. #22
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    So I grabbed Fracture from marauders as another DoT to add on top of ToD and Demolish. Good or bad?

  3. #23

    I thought of making a super DoT PUG with Venomous Strike, Demolish, Fracture and Touch of Death but I figured that was a bit overkill. Might be an interesting idea to play around with though. Once we know exactly how DoTs work (or there is a parser) we'll be able to tell which is more effective.

    TBH I am quite lazy with my PUG/MNK rotations...I typically just flank the mob and wail away. I like getting the guaranteed crit off Bootshine but I'm too lazy to move.

  4. #24
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    The only downside I see at being MNK atm is losing Greased Lightning mid fight, Like in Ifrit Hard mode when he teleports and so, I don't know how MNK compares to other DD jobs, but losing Greased Lightning bothers me with Perfect Balance being the only way to regain it quickly -if- it's up, since it has a 180s CD

  5. #25
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    There seems to be a world tick for dots. So even when your dots are applied at different times, they will tick at the same time for dmg. So some dots could actually be losing ticks depending on how the server tracks it i think. And since all these dots have different lengths, i'm not sure if stacking dots as a monk is beneficial. We'd lose some tick and some dps from our regular chains just to reapply some dots.

    I ono, i'm not really good at the theorycrafting either. At the moment, I feel like me trying to apply all 3 of my current dots and keep them up is actually hurting my dps. But that's just me.

  6. #26
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    I'm not sure on the dots part, I noticed an increase in kill speed when soloing but for non-bosses mobs in instances I'm not 100% sold.Depends on our target uptime, I guess the more we need to move the better they are at providing some damage(again I'm not that good at theorycrafting so apologies if I say something a bit silly...just speaking my mind here).

    I also am bothered by our lack of nuke power sub-50, I hope that at lvl 50 we are a bit more bursty when needed, it feels like we are solid long-term dps, unless greased lightning falls off, which will happen in dynamic fights and kinda worries me, but we do seem to lack a bit burst.I know this is probably as designed but still, adds fights might be a bit of a pain for a mnk.

    I need to dip more into the other DD classes, especially at 50, since I'm not there quite yet, but I'm concerned that mnk is not "high risk/high reward" risk being all the precision movement, but that we might just be trying hard for something not on par.

    that's my "feeling", I kinda want to use the parser but first I plan to get my char in shape to be ready on doing some math, no point at my level =P

  7. #27

    highly dependent on target uptime

  8. #28

    Heya, another way to think of Monk DPS instead of a specific rotation is by a priority list. Currently, this has been my priority as MNK:

    1.) Sustain Greased Lightning buff
    2.) Sustain Twin Snakes buff
    3.) Sustain Dragon Kick buff
    4.) Demolish + Touch of Death DoTs
    5.) Position for Flank
    6.) Position for Back

    Flank positioning is priority over the Back positioning because Dragon Kick + Twin Snakes + Snap Punch cater to priorities 1-3 and benefit from the flanking damage bonus. Back positioning benefits from the Bootshine crit, which is key to optimizing DPS, but may be challenging to accomplish in movement-intensive fights.

    Also, does anyone here use True Strike? Spamming Twin Snakes instead of alternating between it and True Strike is worth considering. Example:

    Twin Snakes + True Strike alternating in rotation:
    Dragon Kick (15s buff)>>> Twin Snakes (12s buff) >>> Demolish (18s DoT) + Touch of Death (30s DoT) >>> Bootshine >>> True Strike >>> Snap Punch >>> Dragon Kick (refresh buff) >>> Twin Snakes (refresh buff) >>> Demolish (refresh DoT)...

    If approached this way, the Twin Snakes damage buff will sustain through the True Strike phase and refresh once Twin Snakes is recasted after the first cycle of weaponskills. During movement intensive fights, the Twin Snakes buff may fall off if True Strike is taken for a mere 10 potency and 5% crit chance increase if hit from behind (assuming optimal positioning). True Strike may be optimal if positioning for Twin Snakes is unachievable within respect to your GCD.
    Twin Snakes spam:
    Dragon Kick (15s buff)>>> Twin Snakes (12s buff) >>> Demolish (18s DoT) + Touch of Death (30s DoT) >>> Bootshine >>> Twin Snakes (refresh buff) >>> Snap Punch >>> Dragon Kick (refresh buff) >>> Twin Snakes (refresh buff) >>> Demolish (refresh DoT)...

    TL;DR: Spam twin snakes for constant buff upkeep, or alternate between True Strike/Twin Snake to theoretically maximize DPS but risk Twin Snakes buff upkeep? Thank you~

  9. #29

    Yeah I wish Greased Lightning lasted longer. It's a real pain in some boss fights having to re-apply it again and again, and get to 3 stacks besides. I wish it decayed slowly from 3 stacks rather than vanishing completely. Either that or lasted longer.

  10. #30
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    I typically ignore True Strike while Internal Release is down, unless I'm already behind the enemy (Bootshine) and not likely to make it to the flank for whatever reason. When Internal Release is up though, I try to keep it in rotation.

  11. #31

    Quote Originally Posted by Zanz L. Barre The 3rd View Post
    TL;DR: Spam twin snakes for constant buff upkeep, or alternate between True Strike/Twin Snake to theoretically maximize DPS but risk Twin Snakes buff upkeep? Thank you~
    Depends on the encounter. If it's dungeon trash or a generally static NM, mix in True. If it's a bastard NM that jumps/moves/teleports/moonwalks frequently, keep pumping out Twin until you know the fight well enough. Garuda, for example, has a strict period of time where she won't teleport. If you know you can fit your True in and make it back to Twin in time, by all means, seize the damage.

    When in doubt, stick to Twin. -10% damage will hurt more than the 10-potency difference/possibility of crit from True.

    Yeah I wish Greased Lightning lasted longer. It's a real pain in some boss fights having to re-apply it again and again, and get to 3 stacks besides. I wish it decayed slowly from 3 stacks rather than vanishing completely. Either that or lasted longer.
    The only way we can remedy this right now is more skill speed. I think that's the point, though, as much as I hate to admit it.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virg View Post
    Imo GLIII should get its duration increased from 12 to 15 if not 20 seconds.
    20 seconds would give us a little le-way to play our classes differently instead of us all following the same rotation. i would love to be able to squeeze in some impulse drives with 180 potency while internal release is up

  13. #33
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    It really bothers me during Primal Hard fights. Ifrit teleports and does his slide thing with his copies (you lose the buff), Garuda you have to hide behind rocks (you lose it) and can lose it during adds if you get a bad tank while you wait for him to position them/get hate so they don't tear you apart with AoEs/cleave, Titan has the bombs and the changes between phases.

    I really wish there was a DPS meter of some kind so I could test stuff by myself and adjust accordingly, MNK reminds me of Unholy DKs in WoW but without a way to quickly reapply diseases.

    I'd like to know how MNK damage compares to say DRG or BRD :<

  14. #34
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    We have parsed quite a few fights in my FC ranging from AK to Titan Hard, but right now MNK is behind DRG and BRD for the sole reason of not being able to maintain GLIII 100%.

    Garuda Hard parse from our BRD

    Vidi Vici - BLM (Garudas Van, full darklight)
    Adio Liengod - DRG (Ifrits Harpoon, full darklight)
    Perthaneus Magnum - MNK (Garudas Talons, full darklight)
    Zack Solitude - MNK (Garudas Talons, full darklight)
    You = Ayden Andraste - BRD (Artemis Bow, full darklight)
    Lazo Zephyr - PLD
    Annessa Silverblade - SCH
    Evar Sor - WHM

    http://cdn.guildwork.net/albums/imag...50cf085d14.jpg

    MNKs (myself and Perthaneus Magnum) were using the rotation I posted on the 1st page of this thread.
    Note: MNKs and DRG stayed off Garuda before each set of twins while BRD and BLM kept damaging her so that makes up for quite some overall damage and DPS.

  15. #35
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    FFXIVApp still doesn't count Demolish, which should be a significant part of MNK DPS. DRGs will do well on fights with large AoE components like Garuda, but MNKs should edge them out slightly on single-target.

  16. #36

    Until we have a working parser I don't think anyone can say for sure, but my gut feeling is that even with the difficulty of keeping up Greased Lightning notwithstanding, no one should be able to out DPS Monks and Pugilists on single targets. That's what we are built for, after all.

  17. #37

    Quote Originally Posted by Icarian View Post
    It really bothers me during Primal Hard fights.
    I haven't worked out a GL preservation strategy for Ifrit and Titan, but Garuda is easy: run out of cover just before the Mistral Song bar fills and Shoulder Tackle+Demolish. 9/10 times you'll refresh GL before it wears off. From there you can HF/AotD/Rock the plumes at maximum power.

    When she teleports to the middle the first time (not for SP) she is not invulnerable, so whack her twice more to preserve GL for the plumes. When she teleports to the middle the second time (for SP) she is invulnerable and you'll have to suck it up.

    Save Perfect Balance for the clones. If a clone spawns near you in time, preserve GL3 by Demolishing her. If you lose GL3, pop Perfect Balance and apply Demolish to the clones and Garu herself. You can't progress through forms while in PB, so just get to GL3 and follow the kill order after that.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berabouman View Post
    Until we have a working parser I don't think anyone can say for sure, but my gut feeling is that even with the difficulty of keeping up Greased Lightning notwithstanding, no one should be able to out DPS Monks and Pugilists on single targets. That's what we are built for, after all.
    LogRep2 seems to work as well as any chatlog-based parser will be able to until the XIV dev team actually cleans up the chat log output or implements the addon API.

  19. #39
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    So how do you guys rate the weapons for a fresh lvl 50? I'd like to understand better how we rate our stats tho.I kinda read about that skill speed is either not worth or needs to be HEAVILY stacked, but hard facts for that? Also crit/determination/acc how do you rate those with some weights ala-wow?

    I'm currently torn on the 7k seals weapon myself for starter since my aetherial has a bit less wpn damage but I think better stat allocation.I might be horribly wrong but can't find much, will have to check the theorycraft.

    I'm guessing ifrit is the first serious one to get...

    also: would it be worth to buy weapon + materias for the base relic or wait and craft it eventually? kinda not sure if i want to spend 120k gil give or take...

  20. #40
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    I'm having a hard time with mnk on these primals, I know it isn't anywhere near ideal for mnk but is my damage horrible? this was 65min of wiping to titan up to killing heart sometimes.. sad to see the war out dding me but I cant keep up greased lightning for shit
    Spoiler: show




    shows no info for touch of death

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