[Guide] Paladin Tanking Compendium (Last update 11/13/13)

[Gray Spy]

Yea, I've only seen DPS pull hate once and that's on a very specific boss with very specific mechanics that allow for it.

As far as Garuda, a Warrior would be a better tank for the 2 sisters because they generate more threat and do it faster. Flash is going to be your best friend until the DPS kill the first sister at which point you should be able to do a normal combo.

However, your mages should refrain from any Medica II prior to obtaining both sisters where you want them and anything else means you aren't utilizing CD's or the other tank is not or people are being hit by things.

Have attempted this fight with both a Warrior OT and Paladin OT, both were unable to do the job properly. For shame. Maybe I'll get lucky one of these days.

[Eurlin]

I was doing Garuda fights last night with PLD MT and WAR OT, we came to the conclusion that It's easier for the Warrior to grab one add and let the rest of the DPS grab the other. Usually I'll as PLD will grab closest Add with a quick lob or two, just to keep him off of mages since Garuda likes to take her time coming back. DD will pull him off after that and we'll all be back on schedule no issues at all with hate on anyone's part. A Warrior can grab both and hold them, but it's just simpler and easier to not do that.

[pixelshader]

Something I'm really struggling to locate (I'm sure I saw it somewhere online) is a table showing the Parry and Block breakpoints for the paladin from DEX. Obviously Dex is a very low priority, but from what I understand Dex provides 1% block and 1% parry for every (x amount) of Dex, at certain breakpoints. It was something like 90 Dex for 1% that makes it rather pointless to consider on gear.

However I vaguely recall that there was a Dexterity breakpoint around the 193/194 Dex mark. So (pure example pulled out of the air) you'd have 15% Parry and 15% Block at 192 dex, and 16% Parry and 16% block at 193, rather than a smooth decimal transition.

A Paladin in tanking gear at 50 will have basically -zero- bonus Dex on any of their optimal gear unless they're wearing a generic DoW jewellery part. Seeing as my Hyur Midlander Paladin has 190 base Dexterity naked... it feels like a naked Paladin is potentially very close to a Parry breakpoint.

The guide doesnt specifically mention Stat Allocation, though obviously it strongly implies 30 in VIT as Vit is the most important stat. But if someone can find the parry/block breakpoint table... it might be that adding 2-4 points into Dex depending on Racial Starting Stats to hit a Dex breakpoint will give 1% parry and 1% block.... making a Stat Distribution of something like 3 Dex 27 Vit a much better option than 30 pure Vit.

I wish I could more help and provide the stats table but my googling power has forsaken me at present.

http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=227 has some information---also if you roam around on that site you'll find more data. You can't block magic damage which in typical theorycraft is 30% of all damage taken. So as it stands VIT is the best stat point for point.

[pixelshader]

In your example you'd need to deal 1,251 damage to pull hate off of the initial heal and not 2,500. Shield Oath/Defiance doubles the threat of anything done while under it.

The biggest problem isn't really the initial heal of Medica II but the HoT left afterwards and the fact that all overhealing still counts as threat. It's almost never really a damage class that pulls off (unless it's within the first few seconds or you're using an old weapon) but the healer, and Butcher's Block/Rage of Halone can only be used every 7.5 seconds if perfectly timed.

Ahh sorry you are correct, its 1251. As for Halone, you don't have to combo it if are trying to get snap aggro without burning provoke. Halone combos are ideal but depending on the situation you may want to use other moves in your toolbox. Thats just something you'll get the feel for.

[Viertel]

Ahh sorry you are correct, its 1251. As for Halone, you don't have to combo it if are trying to get snap aggro without burning provoke. Halone combos are ideal but depending on the situation you may want to use other moves in your toolbox. Thats just something you'll get the feel for.

It isn't really the threat issues unless the healer gets in mind to tank there's not a damned thing you can do about it, even if everyone's at full health. It's just overhealing actually generating threat is going to become major issues down the line as healing potency already is starting to vastly outpace tank threat from both classes. Rage spam helps sometimes, but others it's completely out of your power if they don't have Shroud off cooldown.

I'm not sure if WAR gets anything like Shield Swipe (Revenge basically), but if it actually had even a 3x modifier like Lob/Savage it would more than justify its use because as of now unless you're soloing it's an ability that quite simply isn't worth the GCD expended on it (even if it does nice damage).

EDIT: That having been said, verah nice guide.

[Carth]

Well, maintenance and I figure this would be the best place to ask this: Are there times when Sword Oath is better than Shield Oath as a MT during endgame? Obviously, that's not even a consideration in Coil, but how about before that? Shield Oath seems way too good for dealing with spike damage while Sword Oath is just.... there.

[Sapphidia]

Well, maintenance and I figure this would be the best place to ask this: Are there times when Sword Oath is better than Shield Oath as a MT during endgame? Obviously, that's not even a consideration in Coil, but how about before that? Shield Oath seems way too good for dealing with spike damage while Sword Oath is just.... there.

I wouldn't exactly call it "endgame" but there's been a few times I've found Sword Oath useful since 50. The encounter that leaps out is Demon Wall from Amdapor Keep - there's virtually no direct tank damage, and it's a big dps race. Sword Oath on, go nuts on dps rotations on the wall, and then you only really need to tank one of the two Bee summons which you can easily do in Sword Oath with stuns. The damage boost from Sword Oath is really handy here, especially in groups that might struggle to meet the dps requirement.

Otherwise the only time I tend to use Sword Oath is when I'm on Interrupt Duty on Ifrit Hardmode or the Dhorne Chimera, the times when I'm not the main tank but want to contribute. I found on Ifrit Hardmode that even in sword oath, if I spam a long threat rotation after every single Stunned Eruption then I can remain second on the aggro table despite not being in my threat stance and having gaps in the rotation whilst waiting for the next eruption (it gets a lot easier to do this when you're familiar with the fight and know exactly when the eruptions will come).

I don't think there's a single encounter yet where Sword Oath is better in the sole MT position, unless you're just running through undergeared stuff. Although it's higher DPS than shield oath, it's noticeably lower threat, so what personal DPS gain you make is likely lost in a lower threat ceiling for the dps if they're all well geared.

[Hioki]

I was doing Garuda fights last night with PLD MT and WAR OT, we came to the conclusion that It's easier for the Warrior to grab one add and let the rest of the DPS grab the other. Usually I'll as PLD will grab closest Add with a quick lob or two, just to keep him off of mages since Garuda likes to take her time coming back. DD will pull him off after that and we'll all be back on schedule no issues at all with hate on anyone's part. A Warrior can grab both and hold them, but it's just simpler and easier to not do that.

Ended up bringing just one PLD to pick up garuda and chidara and letting a dps tank the second. Was leagues easier and opened up a spot for for another dps.

[Cantih]

Demon Wall from Amdapor Keep -
Interrupt Duty on Ifrit Hardmode or the Dhorne Chimera,

^

IF your party has managed to keep adds off you, you also might consider switching to Sword Oath during the Stalker rush on Tonberry King.
And you should switch to Sword Oath (and hold a FoF) for that final attack in Praetorium.

If you lack a BLM, and are having trouble clearing Morbol Seedlings on the last boss of Aurum Vale, you might consider switching to Sword Oath and helping to clear them, but it's a desperation move.

It's only fulltime for world farming, and dungeon trash you know won't be an issue. (The first section of Meridianum for instance, though in other dungeons it depends on your party. With BG I can do half of Dzemael Darkhold and The Stone Vigil in Sword Oath, but with randoms it's fulltime Shield Oath.)

[Carth]

I wouldn't exactly call it "endgame" but there's been a few times I've found Sword Oath useful since 50. The encounter that leaps out is Demon Wall from Amdapor Keep - there's virtually no direct tank damage, and it's a big dps race. Sword Oath on, go nuts on dps rotations on the wall, and then you only really need to tank one of the two Bee summons which you can easily do in Sword Oath with stuns. The damage boost from Sword Oath is really handy here, especially in groups that might struggle to meet the dps requirement.

IF your party has managed to keep adds off you, you also might consider switching to Sword Oath during the Stalker rush on Tonberry King.
And you should switch to Sword Oath (and hold a FoF) for that final attack in Praetorium.

Thanks.

Bit of a downer though. I was hoping Stance dancing would become a thing and shake up PLD a little.

[Cantih]

The MP cost kinda prevents doing it more than a handful of times.
Unless you Riot Blade Combo twice for every change.

They just may design a fight where you're supposed to change stances regularly, but so far, nope.

[Sapphidia]

I'm curious to discuss the use of Cure and Stoneskin as a paladin tank. We obviously get fairly limited cross-class abilities (Foresight and Bloodbath are nice but fairly meh cooldowns, Protect and Raise are only really good solo, Fracture is a tiny dps boost but a threat loss), so it makes sense to ideally take both of them.

Right now for me Cure heals around 200-210 per cast, for 133 MP. Stoneskin is 266 MP for 10% (this guide says 8%, my tooltip says 10%) so that'll be between 400 and 500 shield depending on tank gear level. So for efficiency they're pretty similar, Stoneskin taking 50% longer to cast but not being overly spammable. I like having both but I find I rarely get to use them - I wouldn't mind some ideas on when other paladins find these worth using.

On big boss fights I try to keep a Stoneskin on me when there's a pause in the tanking (eg, when Ifrit pops down to do his dashes) or there's a big cast bar before an AOE, but I wonder whether a self-stoneskin cast might interact badly with what healers might be doing. Cure I seldom use outside of self-sustain on Fate bosses, though did have an amdapor earlier when a healer did to an Anantaboga bomb and I kept myself up by spamming cure through a Hallowed Ground.

Where do people find these skills can be useful outside of "oh no my healer's died" moments?

[Viertel]

Proactive healing > reactive healing. Cure just simply isn't worth casting because PLD's MND is shit whereas stoneskin needs no MND to back it up (goodbye FFXI!).

Being able to pop a stoneskin during an attack (i.e. Ifrit rush if you're in a safe place and the healers need to move) is worth more than the piddly-dink amount of HP you get from Cure. Miser laying eggs in Aurum Vale, the dragon casting Catastrophe in AK, the pudding chasing someone in the Palace, etc. All are moments where you can use stoneskin.

[Binkie]

Does bloodbath heal value count towards enmity? Minor, but nice to know.

[Raldo]

Does bloodbath heal value count towards enmity? Minor, but nice to know.

The site mentioned above (http://valk.dancing-mad.com/, Tables, Enmity Tables) links to a JP blog that he pulled some of his info from which he goes on to say at the bottom "He also notes that HP draining abilities such as Bloodbath do not generate any additional enmity. I have not tested HP absorption, but I can confirm all the other modifiers."

So probably not.

[BerenTebogo]

So I've only skimmed but I see you said to stick to buckler / kite over tower. So does this mean that during the bridge to darklight I should take the lv44 GC shields over darksteel tower? That doesn't seem right.

[Eanae]

So I've only skimmed but I see you said to stick to buckler / kite over tower. So does this mean that during the bridge to darklight I should take the lv44 GC shields over darksteel tower? That doesn't seem right.

I used the GC buckler until Relic.

[pixelshader]

So I've only skimmed but I see you said to stick to buckler / kite over tower. So does this mean that during the bridge to darklight I should take the lv44 GC shields over darksteel tower? That doesn't seem right.

I believe the item evolution is GC buckler->Canopus->Darklight Kite->Holy shield.

[Waraurochs]

Out of curiosity, what puts the Heavy Darksteel over the Heavy Darklight? There is a significant DEF difference between the two. Is it the materia added? If so, what are you adding? It seems you wouldn't completely benefit from VIT because it would cap out(not sure if it does, just assumed). Also, the guide says that the stat priority is DEF > VIT. Just trying to figure out which is better before I spend more points on Darklight.

[Nyanoko]

Out of curiosity, what puts the Heavy Darksteel over the Heavy Darklight? There is a significant DEF difference between the two. Is it the materia added? If so, what are you adding? It seems you wouldn't completely benefit from VIT because it would cap out(not sure if it does, just assumed). Also, the guide says that the stat priority is DEF > VIT. Just trying to figure out which is better before I spend more points on Darklight.

The guide is incorrect. Only the HQ Heavy Darksteel is better, as it has the same defense/magic defense, and the discrepancy in additional stats can be surpassed with materia.