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  1. #101
    Physicist
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    Quote Originally Posted by VentusInvictus View Post
    http://ventusinvictus.blogspot.com/2...din-guide.html

    Have been testing base Enmity and Shield Oath for a long time folks. Haven't presented information because there is just some things I cannot figure out, maybe I am missing it. The above post serves as 3 things.

    A guide for Paladin
    A comparison of why we are superior to Warrior in Coil
    How Enmity and Shield Oath are completely broken and the table found here: http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=231 is misleading as fuck.

    Edit: Hell the Dancing-mad table is just wrong not misleading.
    That was a really good read, thank you. I can see why you haven't posted it as fact - hard to make out any results from that.

  2. #102

    There are 1 of 2 things occuring:

    Everyone gets a random threat value for some reason.

    Something I am missing is disrupting my tests.

    I hate presenting bad data but it is time to get it out there.

  3. #103
    Relic Shield
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viertel View Post
    I'm confident that tank fucking sucked and that's the ONLY conclusion you can draw from that situation if you're using an Ifrit's Blade. "Same rotation" means jack if you're not slamming, trying to weave too many non-GCDs in between two, or your DTR sucks ass.
    ^There's your fucking test. Now can you stop being an ignorant twat?

    I'm not going to believe in data when observation alone is showing that the data shown is not matching up in practice.

  4. #104
    CoP Dynamis
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    Just got Heavy Darksteel Flanchard and was wondering what my melding priorities should be.

  5. #105

    Quote Originally Posted by Belragga View Post
    Just got Heavy Darksteel Flanchard and was wondering what my melding priorities should be.
    NQ = Vit > Str > Parry
    HQ = Parry > Crit > Det

  6. #106

    Quote Originally Posted by VentusInvictus View Post
    There are 1 of 2 things occuring:

    Everyone gets a random threat value for some reason.

    Something I am missing is disrupting my tests.

    I hate presenting bad data but it is time to get it out there.
    Something I've noticed is there seems to be some sort of initial enmity. It seems whoever pulls first has some sort of extra enmity for a while then it finally starts respecting the enmity tables. It could be lag, but it does appear to be very weird. As for the table being incorrect, as soon as I am presented with better data I will update it. Regardless of it being wrong or not the rotations would not change until something gets patched, such as fracture creating enough enmity to warrant its use or shield swipe getting taken off the gcd and not resetting halone combos.

  7. #107

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelshader View Post
    Something I've noticed is there seems to be some sort of initial enmity. It seems whoever pulls first has some sort of extra enmity for a while then it finally starts respecting the enmity tables. It could be lag, but it does appear to be very weird. As for the table being incorrect, as soon as I am presented with better data I will update it. Regardless of it being wrong or not the rotations would not change until something gets patched, such as fracture creating enough enmity to warrant its use or shield swipe getting taken off the gcd and not resetting halone combos.
    We swapped who initiated hate nullifying this theory.

  8. #108
    Melee Summoner
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    I was going to note, when I macro things to my Fast Blade it still does not let off my other cooldowns in the macro. How do you get the multi-bind macros to work?

  9. #109
    D. Ring
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    Quote Originally Posted by VentusInvictus View Post
    We swapped who initiated hate nullifying this theory.
    Did you ever run the test with you in Shield Oath? I should think the results from that test would clarify some things. You should be able to tell the difference between a "hidden character hate bonus" and some other explanation, simply by comparing the two results.

    I'd be more inclined to think that someone accidentally coded Shield Oath's hate bonus to a negative instead of a positive (or simply zero, since the damage cut would cause you to generate less hate) before I'd believe there's some sort of "hidden character hate bonus". If it's the latter, that's just plain bad game design, in a game where everyone's supposed to be able to do everything.

  10. #110
    Relic Shield
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Spy View Post
    I was going to note, when I macro things to my Fast Blade it still does not let off my other cooldowns in the macro. How do you get the multi-bind macros to work?
    How do you have it set up? Also, did you copy them from the post here or write them up yourself? The ones noted on the front page have the wrong double-quotes, so they won't work.

    Doing it properly, the macro will fire off FoF on the first press, Bloodbath on the second, and finally Fast Blade. If both abilities are on cooldown, it will ignore them and go straight for FB.

  11. #111
    Relic Shield
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raldo View Post
    Did you ever run the test with you in Shield Oath? I should think the results from that test would clarify some things. You should be able to tell the difference between a "hidden character hate bonus" and some other explanation, simply by comparing the two results.

    I'd be more inclined to think that someone accidentally coded Shield Oath's hate bonus to a negative instead of a positive (or simply zero, since the damage cut would cause you to generate less hate) before I'd believe there's some sort of "hidden character hate bonus". If it's the latter, that's just plain bad game design, in a game where everyone's supposed to be able to do everything.
    He tested it with no Oath on to get a baseline, and found that they couldn't get the same amount of hate until the other PLD had 21 more STR than he did.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferien View Post
    How do you have it set up? Also, did you copy them from the post here or write them up yourself? The ones noted on the front page have the wrong double-quotes, so they won't work.

    Doing it properly, the macro will fire off FoF on the first press, Bloodbath on the second, and finally Fast Blade. If both abilities are on cooldown, it will ignore them and go straight for FB.
    Thank you for the prompt reply. I will check when I get home. Also, I wrote this on the G+ forum community, but I have issues with tooltips not displaying on anything but the primary dynamic hotbar. I have written all the macros exactly the same, too.

  13. #113

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferien View Post
    He tested it with no Oath on to get a baseline, and found that they couldn't get the same amount of hate until the other PLD had 21 more STR than he did.
    This is correct, after testing Oath with several participants and seeing whacky values it occurred to me to do a barebones, no buff/gear test (minus the ring on the taru to get us the same STR). Seemingly, I generate more threat than anyone I know (certainly seems this way concerning my fiance as well lol) and I cannot find out why.

    Maybe SE has picked me to be tank supreme, jk.

  14. #114
    D. Ring
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    I would still run the test with you in Shield Oath. If you do have some magical innate hate bonus, it should become even clearer after that test.

    Also, you might want to both log out and back in after you arrive at your test location and unequip all your gear. That's a complete shot in the dark, but I've seen some weird bugs in this game. I'd be more inclined to think the game forgot to erase your WAR Defiance enmity buff (for example), before I'd believe that everyone has some sort of hidden enmity bonus calculation based on birthdates/diety/etc.

    Also, do you both have the same classes leveled? (i.e. everything's at 50, etc.) Trying to cover all the possibilities before we enter there realm of some voodoo bullshit.

    Alternatively, you could run the test(s) between the two people that couldn't top your hate. Hopefully they would have the same baseline.

  15. #115
    Relic Shield
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Spy View Post
    Thank you for the prompt reply. I will check when I get home. Also, I wrote this on the G+ forum community, but I have issues with tooltips not displaying on anything but the primary dynamic hotbar. I have written all the macros exactly the same, too.
    My macros don't display tooltips, but single abilities tied to my hotbar do. Could that be your issue?

  16. #116
    Melee Summoner
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferien View Post
    My macros don't display tooltips, but single abilities tied to my hotbar do. Could that be your issue?
    I'm using the tooltip macro function that should display the tooltip, but it does not work. Also, I am using the macros exactly written in this thread. I found my post on g+

    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-h...013_145301.png
    "Cure" not showing up, but written properly for this purpose of tooltip.

    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-B...013_145306.png
    Here you can see the macro being written in a similar fashion as my cure macro, and working tooltip.

    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-S...013_145539.png
    You can see the option selector "Display hotbar help." activated, but no help text.

  17. #117
    D. Ring
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    Any chance that the Circle of Scorn on your hotbar is the actual Circle of Scorn action and not your macro version?

    I wasn't aware that any macros could display tooltips.

  18. #118

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Spy View Post
    I'm using the tooltip macro function that should display the tooltip, but it does not work. Also, I am using the macros exactly written in this thread. I found my post on g+

    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-h...013_145301.png
    "Cure" not showing up, but written properly for this purpose of tooltip.

    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-B...013_145306.png
    Here you can see the macro being written in a similar fashion as my cure macro, and working tooltip.

    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-S...013_145539.png
    You can see the option selector "Display hotbar help." activated, but no help text.
    Tooltips don't show in macros. More than likely that circle of scorn isn't a macro.

  19. #119
    Melee Summoner
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelshader View Post
    Tooltips don't show in macros. More than likely that circle of scorn isn't a macro.
    It works. Also, I thought that using the macroicon command gives you the icon + tooltip hover? :/

  20. #120

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Spy View Post
    It works. Also, I thought that using the macroicon command gives you the icon + tooltip hover? :/
    Nope. Either read the guide here or press P on your keyboard to see what the abilities does.

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