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  1. #1
    Motherfucking
    NOSTRADAMUS

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    AF2 vs. Relic Weapon +1 Upgrade Priority

    How is everyone approaching this? NQ Artemis is definitely the first goal as the upgrade over a primal weapon on a WD basis is too much to beat. However, NQ to HQ Artemis vs. Bard's upgrades (vs. DL) is much closer and frankly the AF2 upgrades may actually win.

    I used these damage formulas for the comparison; I believe they are still valid.
    http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id...amageMechanics

    Based on my current stats, upgrading from Darklight Corselet of Aiming to Bard's Shirt is more optimal than Artemis to Artemis +1.



    That said, WD increases are more beneficial the higher your stats are. Assume that my current gear with Artemis NQ yielded DEX of 420:



    In this case, Artemis upgrade is better than DL body to Bard's Shirt. However, Bard's Shirt (and legs) also costs less tokens than three mists, and other pieces cost about half. Difference is marginal across the board; I did not do auto-attack calculations, but I don't think it will make a huge difference as the base formula for both AA and WS is the same except for the initial AA modifier (Artemis +1 has a 0.016% advantage) and DTR has a slightly larger impact on AA.

    Basically trying to plot out the upgrade path, and I feel like I'd rather do Artemis > Bard's Shirt > Bard's Tights > Artemis +1 > rest of AF. This wouldn't be a big deal if not for the weekly token cap.

  2. #2
    Nidhogg
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    Slycer Ilerion
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    Excalibur
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    Fenrir

    I did a fair bit of searching around but I couldn't concretely find an answer (it's probably around somewhere but I'll just ask here). How many of the 300 mythology tomestones are required for going from NQ to +1 relic weapon? Is it three of them for sure? I've heard 900 tomestones floating around as the number, but I wasn't sure if perhaps people were just confusing it with the philosophy tomestone item required for the NQ Relic. Just want to confirm.

    Assuming it is 3 of them, which is what I thought it was, I definitely agree that for almost all jobs you will probably want to prioritize at least one or two pieces of AF2 gear over the Relic+1 weapon. Even without getting into too much detailed analysis, it makes sense generally because you're moving Relic weapons from IL80 to IL90, while you're most likely advancing all of your other gear from IL70 or below to IL90, and for fewer tomestones to boot.

  3. #3
    Motherfucking
    NOSTRADAMUS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slycer View Post
    I did a fair bit of searching around but I couldn't concretely find an answer (it's probably around somewhere but I'll just ask here). How many of the 300 mythology tomestones are required for going from NQ to +1 relic weapon? Is it three of them for sure? I've heard 900 tomestones floating around as the number, but I wasn't sure if perhaps people were just confusing it with the philosophy tomestone item required for the NQ Relic. Just want to confirm.

    Assuming it is 3 of them, which is what I thought it was, I definitely agree that for almost all jobs you will probably want to prioritize at least one or two pieces of AF2 gear over the Relic+1 weapon.
    Yes it is three mists which cost 300 each for 900 mythology total (PLD is a bit different; one mist for shield, two for sword). And I somewhat airballed on the cost of AF2; I had thought the bodies were 495 myth and the other pieces were less going off memory. I just found a SS of all the items online and the bodies/legs are 825 and the rest are 495. Weapon +1 is probably the best option assuming you are upgrading from DL and not AK / AF gear; if you are upgrading from the latter, AF2 may be best.

    Pictures of item costs:
    http://imgur.com/a/C04Ej

  4. #4

    The way it was explained to me, if you have Don't have a Relic weapon, get Darklight gear; makes it easier to do the runs that give you the Relic.

    Since you said you don't have NQ Relic, I'm guessing you haven't beaten/completed Titan Hard. Keep in mind that with Darklight gear and LT/Primal weapons, Titan is easier. People getting facerolled by him because they aren't geared properly and he does Over 9000 stomps.

    Once you have Relic + DL Gear, it'll be a snorefest to farm points. At that point you won't need the Mythology points so much aside from Accessories, but if you can pull 240/120 an hour, you'll be homefree. Relic+1 is the biggest point sink, so get that first, then work your way down.

  5. #5
    Nidhogg
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    when you say 240/120 an hour you're talking about AK, right? assuming no wait times

  6. #6

    Quote Originally Posted by kisada View Post
    when you say 240/120 an hour you're talking about AK, right? assuming no wait times
    Yeah, 240 Philosophy/120 Mythology. When I get home and settled after work it's 1:15 EST, and there is almost no wait time for AK, lol.

  7. #7
    Sandworm Swallows
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    At ~1pm EST I was sitting in an AK queue for more than 30 mins, eventually I had to bail because I had to be somewhere.

  8. #8

    The actual comparison should be done based on useful/relevant stats, not just it being Lv90. Some of the AF+1 is terrible and should be left on the NPC. Most of the Allagan gear is better than the AF+1 equivalent. As far as weapons, I upgraded my sword for better threat but past that the only ones I would do would be Gae Bolg +1 and Artemis Bow +1. I'd rather have an Allagan version of the others.

  9. #9
    Nidhogg
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    I noticed that the Allagan (IL90) weapons were noticeably better in a lot of cases than the Relic+1 ones, which was a little disappointing. That said, I'm assuming the Allagan weapons are probably all from the last turn (assumedly the hardest one), so they're essentially not even obtainable yet. And yeah, the queues have been pretty abysmal for the last 2-3 days, even with a full party. Trying to chain speed runs on Monday, I spent more time queueing on DF between runs than I did in actual runs.

  10. #10

    I did some basic maths using the valk calc for WHM healing results by comparing +1 and the AF2 chest (900 vs 875 or something) and ultimately concluded with a trade off of:

    13 vit (upg from ilvl 60 chest)
    some spellspeed IIRC, but forgot how much (worthless for the most part since hots don't benefit)

    vs

    1.53% healing (upg from relic)

    Did a similar test with bards and the gear was roughly a 1.2% higher gain than the weapon on both weaponskill (was higher) and autoattack. Chest also gave vit.

  11. #11

    Quote Originally Posted by Syncness View Post
    I did some basic maths using the valk calc for WHM healing results by comparing +1 and the AF2 chest (900 vs 875 or something) and ultimately concluded with a trade off of:

    13 vit (upg from ilvl 60 chest)
    some spellspeed IIRC, but forgot how much (worthless for the most part since hots don't benefit)

    vs

    1.53% healing (upg from relic)

    Did a similar test with bards and the gear was roughly a 1.2% higher gain than the weapon on both weaponskill (was higher) and autoattack. Chest also gave vit.
    Had a SCH that had Vanya Healing melded for Critical, and some other stuff. She was hitting me with 1300 Pysicks on a consistent basis, so, there's that too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Niiro View Post


    At ~1pm EST I was sitting in an AK queue for more than 30 mins, eventually I had to bail because I had to be somewhere.
    Of course you should know I mean 1 am. In the Morning.

  12. #12
    Sandworm Swallows
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    I would expect much more traffic at 1am than 1pm.

    1am EST is 10pm PST, people play a lot more at night than midday when most are busy with bothersome RL stuff.

    edit:

    I'd really like to believe that they wouldn't need a 10 hour maint just to adjust some DM/repair prices and add in an iLvl requirement feature to the DF that they've had months to work on and that they're actually doing something, anything, to address the dungeon queue issues.

    I'd like to believe that.

  13. #13
    Fake Numbers
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    Rajah Samsara
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    Fuck me, I'd do anything to get out of Darklite.

    I'd craft the worst HQ rates, I'd farm mythstone, I'd find all the spiritbond gear in the game, I'd do anything.

    I was already under the assumption that the only relic worth talking about was the Shield. But a few base DMG is a pretty big difference when you consider an 8 men wrecking crew with relics

  14. #14
    Smells like Onions
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    I tried posting a new thread but apparently need 10 posts so I guess I'll invade this thread since it's related. I'd like people to take a look at Summoner in regards to this. The gear for Summoner might be considerably different, as I don't know what all of the Bard's gear has, but Summoner relic provides spell speed which isn't phenomenal for us.

    I'll start by addressing the stat prioritization for SMN by quoting from the "Primary stats for each class, 2.0 style" thread on these forums.

    Arcanist/Summoner
    Overall ACN/SMN stat importance: INT > Critical Chance > Determination > PIE > Spell Speed > VIT
    ACN/SMN Stat allocation: INT > PIE > VIT
    Now comparing the change in stats between Relic Weapon and the +1, then Relic body vs Demagogue, since darklight is head/body combined it's more difficult to compare. Also I've already got the Summoner Horn.

    The Veil of Wiyu vs The Veil of Wiyu +1
    Magic Damage: 66 > 69 Change of 3
    Vitality: 27 > 32 Change of 5
    Intelligence: 27 > 31 Change of 4
    Determination: 16 > 18 Change of 2
    Spell Speed: 33 > 37 Change of 4

    Demagogue Half Robe vs Summoner's Doublet
    Vitality: 16 > 29 Change of 13
    Intelligence: 16 > 29 Change of 13
    Determination: 12 > 17 Change of 5
    Critical Hit Rate: 0 > 34 Change of 34
    Spell Speed: 24 > 0 Change of -24

    So is a change of:
    3 Magic Damage
    5 Vitality
    4 Intelligence
    2 Determination
    4 Spell Speed

    Going to outweigh:
    13 Vitality
    13 Intelligence
    5 Determination
    34 Crit rate
    Loss of 24 Spell Speed?

  15. #15
    Nidhogg
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    Seravi Edalborez
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    Mage relics being +3 magic damage (the most; bow is +1 and melee relics are +2) makes them instant top priority. That's worth ~20 primary stat.

  16. #16
    The Defense is ready, Your Honor
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    Can anyone even consider Allaghan weapons to be a priority at this point? Does anyone (other than a potentially cheating JP) have one yet? I feel like someone holding off on +1ing their relic because of an unconfirmed Turn 5 drop is a bit silly.

  17. #17
    Smells like Onions
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    I understand that simply based on magic damage to intelligence the relic upgrade is better, but is 34 crit rate something to ignore? What's the conversion rate of magic damage to secondary stats?

  18. #18

    Allagan weapons seem better for getting other jobs up to spec rather than as a replacement for the relic+1 you'll invariably have.

  19. #19
    Nidhogg
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShinChan View Post
    I understand that simply based on magic damage to intelligence the relic upgrade is better, but is 34 crit rate something to ignore? What's the conversion rate of magic damage to secondary stats?
    Granted I'm not a career SMN but, even though that's a lot of crit, crit is only a "sometimes" thing. If you were BRD where crit = more Bloodletter you'd have a better case. Your DMG is also making your summons better FOR SURE which is the main selling point.

  20. #20
    But I don't want my title changed
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucavi View Post
    Can anyone even consider Allaghan weapons to be a priority at this point? Does anyone (other than a potentially cheating JP) have one yet? I feel like someone holding off on +1ing their relic because of an unconfirmed Turn 5 drop is a bit silly.
    My god man, it's Allagan.

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