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  1. #61
    CoP Dynamis
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucavi View Post
    Okay, next question: Which comes first?

    Upgrade the feet and wear the allagan for 2 sets of ilvl 70 >> 90 or upgrade head over hoplite for one ilvl 60 >> 90?
    I would go with feet/legs

    comparison of stat changes
    changing HDL legs to allagan/warriors, gain 14 str, 7 vit, 9 parry, 24 det, lose 22 acc.

    changing hoplite circlet to Warriors, gain 8 str, 9 vit, 15 det, 15 skill spd, lose 15 acc, lose 11 parry

    Most bang for you buck is legs/feet since it's being done for the same amount of mytho and your choice is one or the other, not both...do more damage now, get head later.

  2. #62
    Smells like Onions
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    For bards in full DL with AK ring (assuming you've already +1'd bow) your first upgrade should be to replace the ring. The next logical upgrade is definitely the legs. They offer a 34crit boost for a 19acc and 1det loss. You can afford the acc loss assuming full DL because you're already 25 over the cap. This is essentially a 34 crit boost for 1det loss. Next upgrade is the body armor which will give 15crit for only a 3acc loss. Again, no need to worry about the acc because you still have some room to play with. Thirdly, the hands are the first piece of non-825 gear you want offering a 21 crit boost for 1acc and 8det loss.

    Hopefully this helps some bards decide where to go in terms of gear after DL.

    For reference:
    docs(dot)google(dot)com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoRtB6mBr4_LdFJhalQwRG0wMDFaUVV4Q29UQVhHZ 0E#gid=0

    (Cant post links when my post count is below 10)

  3. #63
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    (double)

  4. #64
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hezzitate View Post
    For bards in full DL with AK ring (assuming you've already +1'd bow) your first upgrade should be to replace the ring. The next logical upgrade is definitely the legs. They offer a 34crit boost for a 19acc and 1det loss. You can afford the acc loss assuming full DL because you're already 25 over the cap. This is essentially a 34 crit boost for 1det loss. Next upgrade is the body armor which will give 15crit for only a 3acc loss. Again, no need to worry about the acc because you still have some room to play with. Thirdly, the hands are the first piece of non-825 gear you want offering a 21 crit boost for 1acc and 8det loss.
    No, BRDs should not buy legs or body before hands. You can buy hands + an accessory for only 45 more myths than legs or body.

    Furthermore, you shouldn't be using an AK ring in the first place; you should have been using an HQ Spinel. Then you can clearly see that hands+ring is a better option than legs or body. And +1 bow should be behind all of those things; as in the last myth upgrade BRD does.

    Your post is almost precisely the opposite of what should be done.

  5. #65
    D. Ring
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  6. #66
    Relic Horn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    Furthermore, you shouldn't be using an AK ring in the first place; you should have been using an HQ Spinel.
    Assuming stat weights for BRD are the same as for DRG, Toxotes Ring is far ahead of an unmelded HQ Spinel Ring. The +2 DEX alone outweights +10 critical hit rating, and +8 determination is just gravy.

    Stat weights for DRG (replace STR with DEX)
    Weapon Damage: 7.54
    Strength: 1
    Determination: .22
    Crit: 0.16
    Skill Speed: .146
    HQ Spinel Ring (unmelded): 7.6
    Toxotes Ring: 9.76

  7. #67
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    HOT LITTLE SNATCH

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthe View Post
    Assuming stat weights for BRD are the same as for DRG
    Not even close.

  8. #68
    Old Odin
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    DRG doesn't get a bonus 150pot attack every time they crit, so.

  9. #69
    D. Ring
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    I still don't see how 2DEX 8DTR could be worse than 10Crit, but I got unceremoniously thrown out of the Bard thread for asking that (that was my question above, and I would suggest returning it to the bard thread if there's more to say since this has nothing to do with this thread specifically).

    10 Crit is what... +.1% crit rate? I think the constant damage improvement of DEX+DTR would easily outweigh that. That's one extra attack every ~1000 DoT ticks. I'll certainly keep Toxotes until someone says more than "no ur dum", or "but you can meld VIT on the ring!".

    Point-for-point, crit would have to be worth more than .3 DEX in order to beat 3DEX (I'm fudging the 8DTR into 1DEX).

  10. #70
    Relic Horn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seravi Edalborez View Post
    DRG doesn't get a bonus 150pot attack every time they crit, so.
    Technically, neither does BRD. River of Blood is a 50% chance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raldo View Post
    I still don't see how 2DEX 8DTR could be worse than 10Crit, but I got unceremoniously thrown out of the Bard thread for asking that (that was my question above, and I would suggest returning it to the bard thread if there's more to say since this has nothing to do with this thread specifically).

    10 Crit is what... +.1% crit rate? I think the constant damage improvement of DEX+DTR would easily outweigh that. That's one extra attack every ~1000 DoT ticks. I'll certainly keep Toxotes until someone says more than "no ur dum", or "but you can meld VIT on the ring!".
    Based on http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id...iticalHitRate:

    Crit Chance % = 0.0693 x CRT – 18.486
    So it's actually 0.693% for 10 crit rate, meaning an extra 0.3465% chance of River of Blood triggering. Or you can take the DEX and Determination boost which directly increases your bottom line. I haven't crunched the numbers to see which is the bigger increase.

  11. #71

    I think people overvalue crit in general, even for BRD.

    The whole "lol full DL get a clue" mentality seems to reinforce this perception.

    The bottom line is DEX is going to up your damage, always, guaranteed, and by a significant amount more than you could potentially get from crit unless were talking about truly huge amounts.

  12. #72
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    So DTR is better than CRT as well? Since we're going for guaranteed damage.

    As far as I've seen, the only jobs for which CRT is not a throwaway stat are BRD and SCH, specifically because of the significant extra bonuses they get on crits. That's hardly what I would call a "general overvaluation" of +crit.

  13. #73
    The Defense is ready, Your Honor
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    ^ I have to agree. The job has innate abilities that rely on crits. How could you call crit an overvalued stat in that respect?

    There needs to be a parsing system in-game so that we can germinate hard numbers on things like this.

  14. #74
    Claustrum. Really?
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    We're talking incredibly neglible increases too. Like run a 2 STR increase through for a DD on the calculator and you're probably looking at a 0.2-3% damage increase. Is the formula the same for BRD and DEX? I dunno but I assume it's similar.

    Now is 0.693% crit rate increase and 0.3465% chance for River Of Blood proc more than that? Personally I would say yes. The fact you can also meld the crit option is just a bonus.

    Either way the difference between them is going to be very small and hard to prove without the exact formula.

  15. #75
    Relic Horn
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    I suppose it would be possible assign a weight to the compound chance occurrence of River of Blood, but it would have to assume that the cooldown would always benefit from a reset, and Bloodletter would always be used before the next global tick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    The fact you can also meld the crit option is just a bonus.
    You can't meld critical chance to HQ Spinel Ring (the argument was for Toxotes vs Spinel) as it's already at cap.

  16. #76
    Claustrum. Really?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthe View Post
    You can't meld critical chance to HQ Spinel Ring (the argument was for Toxotes vs Spinel) as it's already at cap.
    No but you can meld DTR (to lessen the DTR difference) and VIT. When the difference between the two is incredibly small, then I'd rather have the option with the extra 100 HP on given how pitiful BRD HP is.

    That's the point I made in the BRD thread but Raldo thought VIT was worthless on DD's. I'd beg to differ but different strokes for different folks.

  17. #77
    D. Ring
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    The VIT argument is a slippery slope, considering your ideal ring setup has no VIT on it at all (Hero/Allagan/Darklight), and like I said in the BRD thread, I don't use BRD for anything difficult so VIT is a waste of my time/money. I was merely tired of getting called out for being "gimp" for choosing to wear, what I consider to be, a superior ring.

    I do wonder how many of you would toss the Allagan ring aside for its lack of crit too. ohnoes

  18. #78
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raldo View Post
    I do wonder how many of you would toss the Allagan ring aside for its lack of crit too.
    Um, are you serious? Unless you need the accuracy, DL Ring+Hero's Ring.

    DEX+4 ACC+whatever SKS+lol
    vs.
    CRT+9 DTR+8

    I was merely tired of getting called out for being "gimp" for choosing to wear, what I consider to be, a superior ring.
    It wasn't even necessarily the VIT slippery slope... it was the fact that you asked a "Which is better?" question to min-maxers and then when you got an answer you didn't like, your response was "dude I don't even play this job seriously so who cares lol".

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    Um, are you serious?

    Unless you need the accuracy, DL Ring+Hero's Ring.
    Um, Are you serious?

    Tossing aside the accuracy and skill speed, the difference between DL Ring and Allagan Ring is 9Crit 8DTR vs 4DEX.
    Oh look, it's nearly exactly the same difference as the Spinel+1 vs Toxotes (10 Crit vs 2DEX 8DTR) except nobody can pull that bullshit BUT THE VIT MELDS argument.

    I have no idea why you, and so many others, are valuing +9/+10 crit over +3 DEX. It's particularly ironic coming from someone who was earlier in the Bard thread arguing that doing AOEs on 3+ mobs was more important than spreading DoTs around (which I don't disagree with), because if you're doing that, your +crit is doing far far less than +DEX.

    "bbbbbut I get to shoot more!" Yeah, okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    It wasn't even necessarily the VIT slippery slope... it was the fact that you asked a "Which is better?" question to min-maxers and then when you got an answer you didn't like, your response was "dude I don't even play this job seriously so who cares lol".
    I asked if Toxotes beat Spinel+1. I got told no because VIT. I said "okay I'm going to keep using Toxotes then because I don't use it for anything serious". Then I get called a gimp. You bet your ass I'm going to get a bit pissy, because it's not gimp if it's not worse.

    Like I said above, the reason it's a slippery slope is because we can have the exact same argument about DL vs Allagan, except you lose the VIT argument.

  20. #80
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    It's OK, you don't really even play BRD, so don't worry about it?

    option select