Congress threatening to shutdown unless ACA is defunded/repealed immediately.

[Callisto]

I admit that it's not something I myself would have anticipated at all, but it is something that higher-level analysts that helped come up with the legislation should have.

[Kanriel]

If you have to get a new plan that cost a lot more now, won't you likely get a lot of that money back at the end of the year? I thought one of the parts of the ACA was that insurance companies could only make so much profit off of you, so if you don't have any big expensive medical needs for that year you'll get some form of a return on what you paid into the insurance that year. This is something I remember reading about years ago, so I may be off on this, but thought that was one of the parts of it...

[archibaldcrane]

See, that's where I'm lost. I didn't think that companies would employ this "loophole" to drop people. It's despicable.

It's not company pro..oh, you mean insurance companies. I didn't know they were able to, but guess so. They need healthy young people like myself and my wife paying more so that the PEC crowd can pay less. It makes sense, just sucks for me.

[Cantih]

And the Senate has stripped the GOP amendments to the bill and sent it back to the House.

[Callisto]

no u

[archibaldcrane]

Now all the games have played out. Let's see if Boehner will put it to a vote (violating the "Hastert Rule") or if they're going to continue the amendment ping-pong.

[Callisto]

Pretty solid piece of PR on the plan C of getting rid of the congressional employee exemption, at least if the House GOP is going to be petty as fuck they found something that'll spin better than what they've been doing.

[archibaldcrane]

The "congressional employee exemption" is complete nonsense. Hell, even FoxNews.com's "Obamacare Fact Check" dispelled it.

Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, has repeatedly claimed that Obama let lawmakers off the hook by allowing them to opt out of using the exchanges.

“Look, the wheels are coming off this,” Cruz said during a conservative summit in Iowa on Aug. 10. “The teamsters are abandoning it. President Obama just granted all of Congress an exception. And he did it because Harry Reid and the Senate Democrats who passed this thing came begging and said, ‘Please, please, please let us out of ObamaCare.’ This thing ain’t working.”

Again, not quite.

The truth is that the new law requires lawmakers to use marketplaces set up through ObamaCare. They aren’t exempt from participating -- however, the administration did issue a change allowing Congress and their staff to continue to receive employer subsidies to pay for insurance.

[Callisto]

Wow lol...

[archibaldcrane]

The rationale here is "they get government subsidies that other people don't get!" completely ignoring that the government IS THEIR EMPLOYER and the only reason the government is paying a portion of their premiums is because that's what they were doing before the switch to the exchanges - not doing so would've been a significant compensation cut, not just for elected reps (they don't care) but to all the staffers and shit who aren't raking it in.

[ringthree]

Some House reps are now coming out and saying they will vote for a clean bill despite what the leadership is saying. Several have claimed that they already have 25 votes, which would be more than enough to pass a clean bill with just dem votes.

I thought a shutdown was all but guaranteed at this point, but if they put up a clean CR tonight it will get passed in the House, and all the Senate has to do is vote to suspend the rules and they can easily pass it. The real question is does Cruz, Lee or any of the other troglodytes have the balls to filibuster suspending the rules and actually be the focal point of a government shutdown.

[Cantih]

Unfortunately, as long as Boehner is Speaker, he has control of what comes to the floor.
And as long as he holds to the Hastert Rule, it doesn't matter until just more than half of the GOP in the House say they'll side with the Democrats.
And the last news I saw had him stating a clean bill simply will not come up on the floor.

[archibaldcrane]

Some House reps are now coming out and saying they will vote for a clean bill despite what the leadership is saying. Several have claimed that they already have 25 votes, which would be more than enough to pass a clean bill with just dem votes.

If they had the votes and wanted to just go straight "clean bill" they could block the amendments straight away. Doesn't appear to be happening. They're playing their own game of chicken in the house with each other - if Boehner put up a clean bill it would pass, but the Rs that would pass it won't do what it takes to get a clean bill up there.

[ringthree]

If they had the votes and wanted to just go straight "clean bill" they could block the amendments straight away. Doesn't appear to be happening. They're playing their own game of chicken in the house with each other - if Boehner put up a clean bill it would pass, but the Rs that would pass it won't do what it takes to get a clean bill up there.

Yeah, it didn't happen. So everyone is fucked. Though, I thought it was hilarious that one of the Republican reps called the rest of the Republics "lemmings with suicide vests".

[kuronosan]

Can't wait to see them all voted out.

[Ragnus]

So we've gone into another temporary government shutdown again?

[Cantih]

It's two hours before it's official, but yes, looks like it.

EDIT: Though, I just switched to C-SPAN, and the Senate just snap stripped out the poison, again, and sent it back to the House, again.

[Ragnus]

So at what point will Americans finally break out the pitchforks? Well, most Americans anyway. The hardcore Teapartiers think that their politicians are doing their job with this shit.

[Kanriel]

So at what point will Americans finally break out the pitchforks? Well, most Americans anyway. The hardcore Teapartiers think that their politicians are doing their job with this shit.

I actually think a lot of them are who will go nuts over this. The southern states get the most of government funding, you take food stamps out of those in the south and I think you'll get riots pretty quick. That's the only good thing that can come from this, the complete defeat of the Republican party.

[Drex]

while I do personally like the majority of the ACA I don't think Obama himself really understands how absolutely useless these plans are for mid-to-low income people

generous

but it is something that higher-level analysts that helped come up with the legislation should have

they did; people have been pointing out how unlikely Obama's promise was since the day he made it. why do you think so many people who would supposedly not be affected were so mad about it?

I thought one of the parts of the ACA was that insurance companies could only make so much profit off of you, so if you don't have any big expensive medical needs for that year you'll get some form of a return on what you paid into the insurance that year. This is something I remember reading about years ago, so I may be off on this, but thought that was one of the parts of it...

you're thinking of the new medical loss ratio requirement, which says at least 80% of individual insurance premiums must go towards actual medical expenses and not overhead. the average for individual health insurance plans was already 81% before the amendment so that won't change much. health insurance plans really aren't that profitable relative to other insurance products. it's not a bad amendment but it solves a relatively minor/rare problem.

loss ratios in general are pretty volatile too, so there may be issues in the future with that floor not being some kind of average. we'll see.

See, that's where I'm lost. I didn't think that companies would employ this "loophole" to drop people. It's despicable.

seen this accusation a lot, not sure where it comes from. there is no incentive to just drop people for the sake of dropping them. they are required to spend at least 80% of the premiums on medical expenses so they have no real room to widen their margins. it's one of the best opportunities in history for companies to grab market share - very rare for so many people to "want" a product at the same time.

The bullshit part is that when you're a low/mid-income person who finally gets insurance, your first thought is 'Oh cool, I can finally get this shit checked out and get healthy', when in reality it's just that you won't be in debt for the next 50 years if something that might kill you happens but you're still fucked on everything else.

yes, one of the big marketing gimmicks of the ACA was to help people confuse having health insurance with receiving healthcare, and to confuse receiving healthcare with being healthy. this was to cover up the fact that, if you're paying less in premiums, then you have less "in the pot" when something happens to you. you have to make up for that by paying more out of pocket at the time of the emergency (via deductible and copay), which is exactly the opposite of the way insurance is "supposed" to work. insurance is for risk control: it turns unexpected, future large expenses into a monthly payment.

it's not only blowing up the health insurance market but it's redefining health insurance entirely.