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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    i.e. get around the myth cap (lockout)

    Fundamentally, it doesn't make sense. Either you are leveling an alt character to run with alt groups (which means you just have too much time) or you are leveling an alt character to occasionally bring with your main group in place of your main character (because flexibility). If you don't have a problem benching your main character for an event that drops BiS gear (in the name of Helping The Team), why can't you just spend some of your guaranteed weekly myth haul on a secondary job for that main character?

    It's illogical to insist that every single mythstone be spent only on your primary job at the same time you are willing to sit your mail character out of coil runs with your main group.
    It's not illogical unless you also find min maxing and trying to be efficient as possible also illogical. You can reply with "but you only need darklight for coil", but a lot of people find their enjoyment in the continual upgrades in terms of maximum efficiency.

    Also, too much time? If you haven't noticed leveling in this game is easy. If this was 2004 ffxi I might agree with you, but it's not. This game can be played efficiently with a non-hardcore schedule.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    It's illogical to insist that every single mythstone be spent only on your primary job at the same time you are willing to sit your mail character out of coil runs with your main group.
    You do know you can't backtrack in Coil, right? Once you finish Turn 1, you can't do it again till next week. So people can literally do Turn1-4 in one day and have nothing else to do for the rest.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocl View Post
    while i don't disagree, it seems stupid to blame people for wanting to play the game
    There's plenty of stuff to do in the game that isn't the coil. Why not farm philo mats and become a 1%er or something?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uryuu View Post
    It's not illogical unless you also find min maxing and trying to be efficient as possible also illogical.
    Unnecessarily redoing stuff you've already done is pretty much the opposite of efficiency.

    What happens when new GC ranks come out if the GC gear is actually useful? Are you going to grind GC missions/seals on multiple characters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carth View Post
    You do know you can't backtrack in Coil, right? Once you finish Turn 1, you can't do it again till next week.
    Yes, that's the point.

    Either you bring your main with your coil group, or you don't. If you're willing to sit your main out of coil runs because your group "needs" your alt more, then why are you unwilling to spend myth on a secondary job on your main? Both involve your primary job making sacrifices for the greater good.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    Yes, that's the point.

    Either you bring your main with your coil group, or you don't. If you're willing to sit your main out of coil runs because your group "needs" your alt more, then why are you unwilling to spend myth on a secondary job on your main? Both involve your primary job making sacrifices for the greater good.
    That comparison is balls. My characters' currency/loot pool is entirely separate from each other. My main can get 300 Myth per week while my alt can also get 300 Myth per week. Entirely different situation to just having one character.

    That aside, having two groups for Coil isn't far-fetched at all. It doesn't take an entire week to complete coil T1-4, even if they only took 2-3 hours per day.

  5. #45
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    See, some people might say farming repeatedly as you mentioned is something that "takes too much time". I think this is where we just have to agree to disagree on what we think constitutes a good use of time.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    There's plenty of stuff to do in the game that isn't the coil. Why not farm philo mats and become a 1%er or something?
    What if they want to farm the Coil endlessly because they think it's fun and worth doing?

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carth View Post
    That comparison is balls. My characters' currency/loot pool is entirely separate from each other.
    Yes, it is, which means your greed drops (from all content) are split up on two characters. That defeats a big benefit of class changing.

    That aside, having two groups for Coil isn't far-fetched at all. It doesn't take an entire week to complete coil T1-4, even if they only took 2-3 hours per day.
    As stated, you could have leveled a second character so you could do Limbus or Salvage more often, but when the benefits of doing so can't be transferred to your main, it seems kind of self-defeating.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uryuu View Post
    See, some people might say farming repeatedly as you mentioned is something that "takes too much time".
    At a very minimum, all of the philostones you earn on your alt character to buy DL/relic could have been earned (faster, even) on your main and turned into philo mats.

    My thought is that this seems like a very short-sighted strategy; the content pool is not going to remain as shallow and narrow as it is right now, and it seems to me that spreading out your time investment on multiple characters will wind up being time wasted when the content pool becomes deep and wide enough to discourage alts. (Then again, maybe level cap raises will always keep content narrow.)

    Either way, it's ultimately your time to use as you see fit.

  8. #48
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    Then they're entitled to their terrible life decisions.

    I like the game, but it's an MMO that just released and hasn't even had its first (real) version update patch yet. I don't feel compelled to go full on no-life mode on it right now. I do think the hard cap on progression right now is a little too strict and needs to be lightened a little. I hope they address this in the next VU or two, whether just by adding more sources of ilvl>70 gear or by fiddling with the weekly caps or BC reset, but I'm in no rush to make extra characters to try and circumvent it in the meantime.

  9. #49
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    I find it really funny how people act like playing multiple characters is some huge time investment. Coil takes <40 mins after a few clears, capping myth takes under an hour. 2 characters and you're looking at a whopping 4 hours a week, I expect more playtime than that when I'm paying a sub. This is an issue that will never go away too, a progression MMO like this always makes older content irrelevant as it introduces new tiers of gear. Once you've finally reached the point where you can reasonably gear up alts a new set of gear will come along and the cycle repeats. You're back to slowly gearing up your main over 3 months before you can touch your alt again.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    As stated, you could have leveled a second character so you could do Limbus or Salvage more often, but when the benefits of doing so can't be transferred to your main, it seems kind of self-defeating.
    If you're playing an alt to somehow make your main better, I dunno what to tell you. Usually when you play two characters, it's because you want to play as two characters. Bypassing the Myth/Coil lockouts just happens to be a benefit, but I don't see any reason as to why that benefit alone would tempt anyone to make an alt. It's honestly a lot of work.

  11. #51
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    I was contemplating leveling an alt (only reason is to be able to do coil with other less-hardcore friends outside of my hardcore static), but at this point it isn't the right time to jump on that ship. I don't think SE can continue with their 300mytho/week and 1coil/week stupidity for too long.

    1) Unlike WoW/GW/etc, they let you level all jobs on one character instead of having to level separate character for each class.
    2) Then you have to level sub jobs for each alt.
    3) Also, you can't mail gear obtained on one character to the alt (possible in quite few other MMOs, to the point of even sharing same inventory/gil/guild/flist etc).
    4) To get alt 'end-game' ready you not only need to level it up, level up sub jobs, but also do all of the billion and one main story scenario. First time doing that was okay, but having to do that again when all you want to do is end-game is too stupid to ask for.

    They departed from typical 1char-1class model and they will have to take responsibility for that. And soon. One of reasons I play(ed) FFXI over anything else was that you can have all the jobs leveled on one character and do stuff on whatever job you fancy at the moment (or whatever job your LS/friends need most). All this 'one job in iLv90 gear and the rest stays gimp in iLv70 junk' seriously bothers my OCD.
    So for now I'll wait with making an alt. If SE remains stubborn and unreasonable, I'll have to reconsider if I'm gonna have fun playing like this or move on. If someone has the sanity to level an alt and have time to play/gear both - more power to you!

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiarax View Post
    Coil takes <40 mins after a few clears, capping myth takes under an hour.
    But that's the exact reason I find it so useless to level another character instead of just using the character I have. I can have a new job fully geared with ilvl 70 and relic in a week, and that's more than enough to clear all current content (barring Turn 5, which if even the best groups of main accounts aren't clearing, an alt won't be beating any time soon). Just like every other MMO in existence, a competent core group of players with mediocre gear can get just as much done just as easily as people who are completely decked to the teeth.

  13. #53
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    Different strokes I guess. This is an MMO, the fun for me is in beefing up and progressing my character or just having fun running shit with friends. Right now I'm locked out of both. If the game actually rewarded skillful play I might look at things differently, but even on MNK (easily the class that requires the most work put in to it) you only require very basic knowledge of your rotation and the fight before you have no way to improve upon your play.

  14. #54

    Quote Originally Posted by Ksandra View Post
    That's like all other mmos though.
    Yeah but unlike other MMOs, I can use my rare/ex shit on my WAR and PLD that I have at 50. So my DL gear works for both of them, whereas i'd have to gear up DK and Warrior separate in WoW.

    leveling up an alt is fine I guess but I dont see the purpose. If everything is at 50 and you're that bored? Suuuuure? Or if you really REALLY love coil? Otherwise do some other shit with your time.

  15. #55
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meresgi View Post
    Yeah but unlike other MMOs, I can use my rare/ex shit on my WAR and PLD that I have at 50. So my DL gear works for both of them, whereas i'd have to gear up DK and Warrior separate in WoW.
    That's only two classes though. If you noticed, no one is saying they lvled a war on one and a pld on another.

    It seems most are doing the DoW/DoM split. There's really nothing wrong with it.


    Also, Spider-Dan being all kinds of retarded. If people wanna do coil more than once a week, who the fuck are you to judge them? Again, all other mmos are designed this way. Many who play others have the mentality now of having multiple characters to farm content for each job.

    I mean, did it occur to you that maybe *shock* people actually enjoy playing multiple classes? You keep going off on "main" vs. "what the ls needs". What if you like BOTH?

    Again Wow example. I fucking love hunter. I also fucking love priest. You could never get me to pick which is my "main". I'd never be able to decide. I wanted to do content on both because I liked actually playing both of them.

    I really am trying to wrap my head around why people think it's so wrong for others to enjoy doing the content on different classes. Playing bard for me is vastly different than playing sch. I don't really see what's wrong with not being limited in playing both in coil (in the same week) if I wanted to.

    [edit] to go with that, if someone only wants one character, great! As I said, atm I only play one as well just because I don't have the time for two because of how casual I play since being a mom. Basically, let people play how they want to play, and move on. Just because you aren't interested in the bonuses, doesn't mean they don't exist for other people.

  16. #56
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    my main is heals and my alt is heals b/c i dont trust anybody to heals ever

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ksandra View Post
    If people wanna do coil more than once a week, who the fuck are you to judge them?
    Seems like a thread titled "Multiple Characters vs. Sticking with one - Thoughts?" is precisely the right place to comment on the subject.

    Again, all other mmos are designed this way.
    "All other MMOs" don't allow you to use multiple classes on one character, nor do they require you to level up other classes for abilities.

    Again, I don't remember anyone complaining that they could only lot Dynamis gear for one job twice a week, so this kind of "I need to have BiS gear for all my classes simultaneously" mentality is new to FF.

    I mean, did it occur to you that maybe *shock* people actually enjoy playing multiple classes?
    You can already play multiple classes on one character.
    That is the defining feature of FF MMOs.

    I really am trying to wrap my head around why people think it's so wrong for others to enjoy doing the content on different classes. Playing bard for me is vastly different than playing sch. I don't really see what's wrong with not being limited in playing both in coil (in the same week) if I wanted to.
    So is DL SCH with NQ relic so drastically inferior that you'd rather make a new character (so you can have full i90 gear and relic +1... 4 months from now)?

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    What happens when new GC ranks come out if the GC gear is actually useful?
    Tee hee.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    You can already play multiple classes on one character.
    You don't get it, or don't want to get it, and never will.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucavi View Post
    Tee hee.
    Having quit 1.0 two weeks in, you are blissfully unaware that at the close of 1.0 service, lots of GC pieces were BiS or close to it (e.g. GC bow was second only to relic).

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    Having quit 1.0 two weeks in, you are blissfully unaware that at the close of 1.0 service, lots of GC pieces were BiS or close to it (e.g. GC weapons were second only to relic).
    I'm also very aware of what we have in front of us right now (useless tripe), as well as how absurdly easy it is to literally sit on 50k seals and have enough AK gear stored up to reliably hit up another 15k in a matter of minutes. I'd be extremely surprised if someone who is in coil (AKA. ready for any new gear sets to be introduced) hasn't hit the 50k cap at least once already, and if they've already done it once, they can do it again.

    Seriously, it takes what, a single secondary class up to 50 through FATE grinding to max out your seals? Stop making it out to be some long-winded challenge. Its a goddamn grind, much like XI's praised content, and its not even a difficult one, just tedious as shit if you aren't Gulkeeva and live for that kind of shit.