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Thread: REM Upgrades     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #61
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    * Mythics have substantial damage potential with AM3 activated (except Gastra/DP) due to the extra TP gain, but it's a pain in the ass to activate them so it is fine if they're superior to the other options with AM3 because they won't be feasible to use in many situations.
    So what do you think about gast? It had more base dmg before and now has less and that's with the huge gulf between bullets and bolts that didn't exist and it's am3 is very awkward to keep up and doesn't increase tp and doesn't work on ws like the non ranged mythics. So what just copypasta the same thought from melees without thinking or trying to phase out xbows for rng? I'm thinking the latter since the dmg difference between bolts and bullets has increased so much since soa came out. Shame there isn't something like an ilvld machine xbow

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    Outclassed by alternatives even with AM3: Gastraphetes
    I think it sucks, probably even compared to the shark X-bow, and they have the same delay:
    https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Gastraphetes_%28Level_119%29 :: 217 damage before fSTR
    https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Illapa :: 259 damage before fSTR

    If you assume 20 fSTR, then the Snapshot on Gastraphetes would have to give it an 18% DPS boost just to pull even with Illapa in the TP phase. If a ranger was running 31% Snapshot before the weapon and Gastraphetes was 10% Snapshot (and there are no caps), then that would be approximately the amount of a boost that it gives, but it would still have to make up the WS damage difference, lack of Enmity-, etc. somehow.

  3. #63
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    You wonder if maybe they mixed up Gast and DP's DMG ratings? lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodles355 View Post
    You wonder if maybe they mixed up Gast and DP's DMG ratings? lol
    Very approximately I do get about 10% Snapshot on level 99 Gastraphetes. I'm testing it semi-afk on the test server, but I can't force 0 damage with Gastraphetes so there are limits to how well I can automate the process. Currently I am at 82.5% expected delay with like 20 shots and 5/5 merits. I can expand the sample size and get a 90% Snapshot test case with Illapa tonight on the real servers.

    Edit: I can't really re-do it because I don't know what SE's assumptions are, but keep in mind that the below numbers do not include the forced delay between finishing one shot and starting the next. The higher this delay is assumed to be, the more low-delay ranged weapons are hurt. Furthermore, because this delay is not affected by snapshot, this means that higher delay weapons will benefit minorly more from snapshot. I would be unsurprised to learn it is possible to break 60% Snapshot currently. Regardless, I still feel most of the below conclusions hold true.

    As far as reversing the base damages . . . I'm not sure. With Achi ammo:
    Code:
    Armageddon  - D103, 582 delay      :: 36.7 DPS without fSTR
    Annihilator    - D105, 582 delay   :: 36.9 DPS without fSTR
    Death Penalty - D119, 480 delay    :: 46.5 DPS without fSTR
    Gastraphetes  - D93, 432 delay     :: 30.1 DPS without fSTR
    Illapa - D135, 432 delay           :: 36.0 DPS without fSTR
    Armageddon and Annihilator look intentional, as they follow approximately the same relic/empyrean relationship seen in other weapon types. The DPS is a little higher than the other empyrean/relic combinations, but that's because it's a ranged weapon. Also, there is less of a gap between the Relic/Empyrean weapon than in other combinations (0.5% instead of 2%).

    Flipping the base damages between Death Penalty and Gastraphetes don't even come close to compensating for the massive base damage increases. Mythics typically have about 1.5% lower DPS than the same-class Empyreans, which means that Death Penalty's base damage should have been 36. Not joking. In order to lower it down below Armageddon, they'd need to decrease its base damage to 36.

    Their real fuckup as far as this math goes was adding Achi bullet. Using Titanium ammo:
    Code:
    Armageddon  - D103, 582 delay     :: 28.7 DPS without fSTR
    Annihilator    - D105, 582 delay  :: 28.9 DPS without fSTR
    Death Penalty - D119, 480 delay   :: 36.8 DPS without fSTR
    Gastraphetes  - D93, 432 delay    :: 26.3 DPS without fSTR
    Illapa - D135, 432 delay          :: 32.1 DPS without fSTR
    Death Penalty - D64, 480 delay    :: 29.9 DPS without fSTR (Level 99)
    Apart from Death Penalty, which is still the clear outlier, this is much more even. I would have expected Gastra to be D116. Death Penalty should have been D51. Giving it D93 would have pushed the DPS up to 33.5, higher than expected. To be clear, this means that a level 99 Death Penalty without an upgrade is already higher DPS than any of the new guns even without using Plasm ammo, minus the fact that you can't hit anything because you have no massive marksmanship skill boost.

    It's possible that they reversed Gastra and DP's base damage and exacerbated the issue, but DP is a big problem either way.

    Other large problems are Awilda's Gun and the OA2-4 gun. Awilda's Gun is hurt somewhat terribly by the post-shooting delay, but the OA2-4 gun is not and remains a beast.
    Code:
    Titanium:
    Anwilda's Gun - D5, 210 delay              :: 51.4 DPS
    OA2-4 Gun - D21, 660 delay, 1.9 shots/shot :: 33.9 DPS <-- with massively higher TP gain than any other gun
    
    Achi:
    Anwilda's Gun - D5, 210 delay              :: 73.7 DPS
    OA2-4 Gun - D21, 660 delay, 1.9 shots/shot :: 47.3 DPS <-- with massively higher TP gain than any other gun

  5. #65
    Flowery Twats
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    Sometimes you wonder if some of the devs ever took math in high school

  6. #66
    Relic Horn
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    Did some lowman mata breeding for 2.5 hrs

    15 Beitetsu
    3 Pluton
    11 Boulders

    2x Case drops total

  7. #67
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodles355 View Post
    Sometimes you wonder if some of the devs ever took math in high school
    Sometimes I wonder if they ever took math in grade school or even made it to highschool

  8. #68
    Cerberus
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    Safe to assume the REM upgrade items Boxes are in the .dats but not in game yet?

  9. #69
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seol View Post
    Safe to assume the REM upgrade items Boxes are in the .dats but not in game yet?
    Maybe from super duper hard mode bcnms at a horribad droprate?

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    Maybe from super duper hard mode bcnms at a horribad droprate?
    That's where my money is.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    Maybe from super duper hard mode bcnms at a horribad droprate?
    Unfortunately that's my prognosis as well :/

  12. #72
    Cerberus
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    Either that or they are saving them for the new BCs that didn't make it this update, but were planned for?

  13. #73

    Quote Originally Posted by Seol View Post
    Either that or they are saving them for the new BCs that didn't make it this update, but were planned for?
    lol people still trying to believe in square enix, funny stuff.

  14. #74
    CoP Dynamis
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    Apparently if you hand in 300 items and your weapon, you don't get it back for a day. The NPC says come back in a day, doesn't say if he means game day or JP midnight.

    Edit: Its just a game day wait.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    Very approximately I do get about 10% Snapshot on level 99 Gastraphetes. I'm testing it semi-afk on the test server, but I can't force 0 damage with Gastraphetes so there are limits to how well I can automate the process. Currently I am at 82.5% expected delay with like 20 shots and 5/5 merits. I can expand the sample size and get a 90% Snapshot test case with Illapa tonight on the real servers.

    Edit: I can't really re-do it because I don't know what SE's assumptions are, but keep in mind that the below numbers do not include the forced delay between finishing one shot and starting the next. The higher this delay is assumed to be, the more low-delay ranged weapons are hurt. Furthermore, because this delay is not affected by snapshot, this means that higher delay weapons will benefit minorly more from snapshot. I would be unsurprised to learn it is possible to break 60% Snapshot currently. Regardless, I still feel most of the below conclusions hold true.

    As far as reversing the base damages . . . I'm not sure. With Achi ammo:
    Code:
    Armageddon  - D103, 582 delay      :: 36.7 DPS without fSTR
    Annihilator    - D105, 582 delay   :: 36.9 DPS without fSTR
    Death Penalty - D119, 480 delay    :: 46.5 DPS without fSTR
    Gastraphetes  - D93, 432 delay     :: 30.1 DPS without fSTR
    Illapa - D135, 432 delay           :: 36.0 DPS without fSTR
    Armageddon and Annihilator look intentional, as they follow approximately the same relic/empyrean relationship seen in other weapon types. The DPS is a little higher than the other empyrean/relic combinations, but that's because it's a ranged weapon. Also, there is less of a gap between the Relic/Empyrean weapon than in other combinations (0.5% instead of 2%).

    Flipping the base damages between Death Penalty and Gastraphetes don't even come close to compensating for the massive base damage increases. Mythics typically have about 1.5% lower DPS than the same-class Empyreans, which means that Death Penalty's base damage should have been 36. Not joking. In order to lower it down below Armageddon, they'd need to decrease its base damage to 36.

    Their real fuckup as far as this math goes was adding Achi bullet. Using Titanium ammo:
    Code:
    Armageddon  - D103, 582 delay     :: 28.7 DPS without fSTR
    Annihilator    - D105, 582 delay  :: 28.9 DPS without fSTR
    Death Penalty - D119, 480 delay   :: 36.8 DPS without fSTR
    Gastraphetes  - D93, 432 delay    :: 26.3 DPS without fSTR
    Illapa - D135, 432 delay          :: 32.1 DPS without fSTR
    Death Penalty - D64, 480 delay    :: 29.9 DPS without fSTR (Level 99)
    Apart from Death Penalty, which is still the clear outlier, this is much more even. I would have expected Gastra to be D116. Death Penalty should have been D51. Giving it D93 would have pushed the DPS up to 33.5, higher than expected. To be clear, this means that a level 99 Death Penalty without an upgrade is already higher DPS than any of the new guns even without using Plasm ammo, minus the fact that you can't hit anything because you have no massive marksmanship skill boost.

    It's possible that they reversed Gastra and DP's base damage and exacerbated the issue, but DP is a big problem either way.

    Other large problems are Awilda's Gun and the OA2-4 gun. Awilda's Gun is hurt somewhat terribly by the post-shooting delay, but the OA2-4 gun is not and remains a beast.
    Code:
    Titanium:
    Anwilda's Gun - D5, 210 delay              :: 51.4 DPS
    OA2-4 Gun - D21, 660 delay, 1.9 shots/shot :: 33.9 DPS <-- with massively higher TP gain than any other gun
    
    Achi:
    Anwilda's Gun - D5, 210 delay              :: 73.7 DPS
    OA2-4 Gun - D21, 660 delay, 1.9 shots/shot :: 47.3 DPS <-- with massively higher TP gain than any other gun
    your DP math is wrong. COR can't use Achi bullet, so the 46.5 DPS is incorrect. Using Adliviun Bullet, it would be [(gD119+bD214)*60]/480 = 41.6 DPS. It is still 5 DPS higher than Anni/Arma, but not as drastic.

  16. #76
    Ridill
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    Also worth noting it looks like all those dps are done using melee delay/time ratio instead of ranged ones one all the dps should be almost double that.

    Also to note assuming 1.9 shots/shot the OA2-4 isn't necessarily all that much higher tp gain than other guns. This is because partly because the static +5 tp somewhat counteracts the pain from the fixed post shoot delay but also because I'm fairly certain it also will only proc on 1 hit. I haven't tested on oa guns but that is how it works on double shot. That being the case with no snapshot Anwilda's will actually tp faster assuming a 1 sec after shoot delay. On top of that double shot also diminishes it's effectiveness

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fival View Post
    Apparently if you hand in 300 items and your weapon, you don't get it back for a day. The NPC says come back in a day, doesn't say if he means game day or JP midnight.

    Edit: Its just a game day wait.
    Someone has seriously done this????

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toth View Post
    Someone has seriously done this????
    http://guildwork.com/broadcasts/527c...6e4d551cbaf58d

  19. #79
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    That's just insane...

  20. #80
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    That link reminds me that Doge is by far my favorite meme.

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