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  1. #121

    Yeah, being shot in the face as opposed to the back of the head kind of changes everything. Granted, if the shooter is black, they'll still probably go to jail because lolJustice.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blubbartron View Post
    Yeah, being shot in the face as opposed to the back of the head kind of changes everything. Granted, if the shooter is black, they'll still probably go to jail because lolJustice.
    Would you say there's been a strong track record of black people getting shot, and their assailants "probably" going to jail because justice errs on their side?


  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blubbartron View Post
    Yeah, being shot in the face as opposed to the back of the head kind of changes everything. Granted, if the shooter is black, they'll still probably go to jail because lolJustice.
    Not sure how that changes anything. There are important chunks of information missing in this story.

  4. #124

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikarys View Post
    Would you say there's been a strong track record of black people getting shot, and their assailants "probably" going to jail because justice errs on their side?

    Read closer - I said the shooter was black, not the person who got shot. We know the chick that was killed is black, but we don't know anything about the shooter.

    Quote Originally Posted by ronin sparthos View Post
    Not sure how that changes anything. There are important chunks of information missing in this story.
    Similar to above, if the shooter is black, chances are they're going to jail regardless of whether or not it's a legitimate self-defense shooting. The courts are not fair to black people when they're going up against charges. It's too easy for prosecutors to tap into the latent racism of the jury, which almost always contains all (or mostly) white jurors.

  5. #125
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    Jesus, fuck, assumptions.
    Call me back in when there's more information here.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mina View Post
    So I'm going to pretend this is the "victim's fault" for a minute to get an answer to question. Anyone who has a gun can answer this or I can just ask the gun instructor this weekend when I meet up with him. Cause I don't handle/own a gun and in my mind "shotgun to the head/face/etc" seems excessive. I realize that like, shotguns have a spray effect but I'm assuming since the head was blown off that it was aiming for there.

    Can't you like... shoot something not like... completely fatal (like the head/heart/important functions required for living) and stop someone? Like a leg? A foot? Or is shooting someone's face off the course of action for self defense?
    Aim small, miss small. That, along with what ronin said. It is kind of hard to miss your target with a shotgun though. All you have to do is point it in the general direction of your intended target. Which makes me wonder how he(is the shooter even male?) only shot her in the head...

  7. #127

    Quote Originally Posted by Acevalefor View Post
    Aim small, miss small. That, along with what ronin said. It is kind of hard to miss your target with a shotgun though. All you have to do is point it in the general direction of your intended target. Which makes me wonder how he(is the shooter even male?) only shot her in the head...
    Shotguns don't have nearly the spread that the average person thinks they do. Larger than a single bullet from a handgun? Yes. But only by a factor of about 5-10 at ranges under 20 feet. Not to mention that's only with "shot" type ammunition. They could've been using slugs, which means no spread.

  8. #128
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    Can he use stand your ground law if he says the gun went off accidentally? If you are holding a gun and it accidentally goes off and kills someone can you be charged with something like manslaughter?

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    I'm of the opinion that he was within his legal rights to answer the door with a gun as long as the gun is registered. Accidentally killing the woman is his fault and he will be tried and found guilty of manslaughter. Unless Sherlock gets on the case and magics the answer up out of thin air, no one will ever prove intent.

  10. #130
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    How exactly do you accidentally fire a weapon at someones head.

    I mean I know how, but really? Really?

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    bad trigger discipline

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronin sparthos View Post
    How exactly do you accidentally fire a weapon at someones head.

    I mean I know how, but really? Really?
    ???

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    Well, if he was using a shotgun at close range then I assume he would have started with it pulled out when he opened the door.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    Well, if he was using a shotgun at close range then I assume he would have started with it pulled out when he opened the door.
    We don't know that he opened the door even. So far we have the family's statement (which has at least 1 inaccuracy) and the police response, and essentially "we're investigating".

    The man told detectives he thought the girl was an intruder trying to break into his house at night and he accidentally discharged his shotgun, Lt James Serwatowski said.
    This isn't stand your ground, same as it wasn't the defense used in the Zimmerman case, it's a self defense argument. I can imagine how his story will go: Someone started loudly banging on his door at 3:40 am. He thought someone was trying to break into his house, grabbed his gun, and went to investigate as they continued to kick and bang on his door. He didn't have his porch lights on and couldn't see the person. He was startled and accidentally fired.

    Now feel free to translate that in anyway that's appropriate to "ZOMG, I blame the victim, it was totally her fault!"

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zealot View Post
    if Stand Your Ground works the way I think it does, he'd be within his rights to have the gun out if he felt like his life was threatened, so it may not matter that it went off accidentally. I hope it works the way you think it does though, because then they'd at least charge him with something.
    Short answer: If he believed she was breaking and entering then he is automatically at risk of great bodily harm under Castle Doctrine. If he is at risk of great bodily harm and not actively committing a crime then he is defending himself under the Self-Defense Act. Burden of proof that he could not reasonably believe he was at risk of great bodily harm lies with the prosecution under Stand Your Ground. That would first require the prosecution to prove that he could not reasonably believe she was trying to break in, in order to nullify Castle Doctrine.

    The underlying laws aren't long but I'll spoiler them:

    Michigan's Stand Your Grand Act
    Spoiler: show
    Quote Originally Posted by Michigan Public Act 310
    The People of the State of Michigan enact:

    Sec. 1. (1) An individual who uses deadly force or force other than deadly force in compliance with section 2 of the self-defense act and who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses that deadly force or force other than deadly force commits no crime in using that deadly force or force other than deadly force.

    (2) If a prosecutor believes that an individual used deadly force or force other than deadly force that is unjustified under section 2 of the self-defense act, the prosecutor may charge the individual with a crime arising from that use of deadly force or force other than deadly force and shall present evidence to the judge or magistrate at the time of warrant issuance, at the time of any preliminary examination, and at the time of any trial establishing that the individual's actions were not justified under section 2 of the self-defense act.

    Enacting section 1. This act takes effect October 1, 2006.


    Self-Defense Act Section 2 with provisions for nonlethal force removed since this is obviously lethal force
    Spoiler: show
    Quote Originally Posted by Act 309
    Sec. 2.

    (1) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses deadly force may use deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if either of the following applies:

    (a) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent death of or imminent great bodily harm to himself or herself or to another individual.

    (b) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent sexual assault of himself or herself or of another individual.


    Michigan "Castle Doctrine" Bill 1046
    Spoiler: show

    Quote Originally Posted by Act 311 "Castle Doctrine"
    Sec. 1. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), it is a rebuttable presumption in a civil or criminal case that an individual who uses deadly force or force other than deadly force under section 2 of the self-defense act has an honest and reasonable belief that imminent death of, sexual assault of, or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another individual will occur if both of the following apply:

    (a) The individual against whom deadly force or force other than deadly force is used is in the process of breaking and entering a dwelling or business premises or committing home invasion or has broken and entered a dwelling or business premises or committed home invasion and is still present in the dwelling or business premises, or is unlawfully attempting to remove another individual from a dwelling, business premises, or occupied vehicle against his or her will.

    (b) The individual using deadly force or force other than deadly force honestly and reasonably believes that the individual is engaging in conduct described in subdivision (a).
    Subsection 2 clarifies when castle doctrine does not apply: if the homeowner was using their home to commit a crime, if the person attacked was a (ex)spouse or child of the homeowner, or a "peace officer". I assume those don't apply here.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronin sparthos View Post
    Not sure how that changes anything.
    Are you being difficult or just retarded? Genuine question.


    User was infracted for this post.

  17. #137
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  18. #138
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    Can we change the timeout avatar. It encourages violence.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by thetruepandagod View Post
    Are you being difficult or just retarded? Genuine question.
    Did he really get banned for this?

  20. #140

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    i think he got banned for being a faggy jew

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