Magic Damage Order of Operations

[Yugl]

Rocked multiple mobs doing this (Except for Orc/Mouse Bat/Amanita):

STAT     Wild Rabbit   Orc Fodder   Ding Bat   Mouse Bat   Forest Hare   Scarab Beetle   Amanita   Carrion Worm
STR      100           100          100        100         100           100             100       100
INT      95            95           95         95          95            95              95        85
MAB      0             0            0          0           0             0               0         0
Result   529           501          499        499         529           470             412       489
INT      6             5            6          6           6             6               ???       11

Edit: Done! Very consistent with what other zones show. I don't think there is variation in INT across mobs at this stage (Though I didn't travel that far....). Amanita has some sort of MDB since no INT level matched. Variations reflect differences in monster correlation. Note that the Carrion worm's stats match its lesser counterpart.

STAT     Wild Sheep   Orc Fodder   Orc Grappler   Ding Bat   Wild Sheep (2)   Forest Hare   Scarab Beetle   Goblin Weaver
STR      95           95           95             95         95               95            95              95
INT      89           89           89             89         89               89            89              89
MAB      0            0            0              0          0                0             0               0
Result   507          480          480            480        505              509           449             472
INT      8            7            7              7          9                7             8               11

Grabbed from the bottom of the hill (Where the first Orcish Mage spawns) to Jaggedy-Ear-Jack.

[Masamune]

Those damage number are with what ? Leaffstorm ?

Regarding Amanita, i think i have some data on Brass Caps (funguars Grauberg) ill look into them to figure their job (if their is any MDB from job or sub)

[Yugl]

Leafstorm.

[Masamune]

Trying to get yur deathray numbers from the formula for the 1st test you did, with INT=81 MND=93 and MAB=0% :
DeathRay Dcap=51, INT20% MND10%, fTP=1.625+25% correlation Amorph>Bird=1.875, T=1
Bat's INT reduced from SoundBlast to 1 for dINT, MDB unknown to be determined.

DMG=Floor((Floor((D+ST)*fTP)+dINT*T)*MAB/MDB)
DMG=Floor((Floor((51+Floor(Floor(81*20%+93*10%)*85%))*1.875)+(81-1)*1)*(1+0)/(1+0))
DMG=Floor((Floor((51+21)*1.875)+80)*1)
DMG=(135+80)=215

...matching assumed 215 (not 214) you would get if "unresisted". (197 if no correlation, like on rabbits)

Now if i search for a MDB in such way final DMG matches the observed 107dmg, i'll need to solve :
DMG=Floor((Floor((51+21)*1.875)+80)*1/(1+MDB%))
DMG=Floor(215/(1+MDB%))=107

99.08%<=MDB%<=100.9%

So to pinpoint an exact value within that range, let's use the 122dmg you got with DayBonus and MAB:

with DayBonus > MAB=5% and max(MDB%):
DMG=Floor(Floor(215*1.1)*(1.05/2.009))=123 : No Match!
with MAB=5% > Day Bonus :
DMG=Floor(Floor(215*(1.05/2.009))*1.1)=123 : No Match!

Means total MDB% needed to match 122dmg is higher than the maximum possible value obtained from solving DeathRay unresisted damage.

There i think is a mathematical proof that the "MDT-like" observed for dark magic damage on bats is OUTSIDE the TotalMDB% term in the formula. (Unless i missed something in the calculations that could easily shove 1dmg point :s)

EDIT: after reviewing the calculations, i found 2 asumptions:
- INT and MND valuesused arenot confirmed, Yugl ?
- SounBlast removing- 10 INT, is minimal final INT=1 or 0 or can go into negative ?
Can you redo same test without SoundBlast and with confirmed INT MND ?

[Yugl]

Amorph > Birds (Bats). 197 is the damage on rabbits.

[Masamune]

Orz there were a correlation... another asumption -.-

Honestly i hate that. Rechecking calcs with that...

Did you use Magus AF1 head ?

EDIT: ok corrected calculations, but even with correlation the final conclusion in the end of the post still remain Yugl.

[Yugl]

Nope! It works with the correlation.

[Masamune]

Nope! It works with the correlation.

I'm not sure to understand that answer, sorry if i'm being picky :s

is "Nope!" for not using Magus head ? or something else ?

my question :

...the final conclusion in the end of the post still remain Yugl.

were actually refering to :

EDIT: after reviewing the calculations, i found 2 asumptions:
- INT and MND valuesused arenot confirmed, Yugl ? INT81 and MND93 right ?
- SounBlast removing- 10 INT, is minimal final INT=1 or 0 or can go into negative ?
Can you redo same test without SoundBlast and with confirmed INT MND ?

Also i retrieved the 499 Leafstorm damage on bats with formula without any correlation or MDT, so proves bats bats do NOT "resist" Wind based magic damage.

[Yugl]

Nope = Didn't use AF Helm.

EDIT: after reviewing the calculations, i found 2 asumptions:
- INT and MND valuesused arenot confirmed, Yugl ?
- SounBlast removing- 10 INT, is minimal final INT=1 or 0 or can go into negative ?
Can you redo same test without SoundBlast and with confirmed INT MND ?

I'll confirm that in a sec and edit this post. Since I didn't use any MAB, it wouldn't make sense for INT to be 0 or negative since it would come up with a different number completely (Without some multiplier, it turns into an addition formula (fTP Portion)+(dINT*TM))

[Radec]

I can confirm stacking a ton of -INT onto a mob will result in 1INT - verified the V's for a lot of T1-4 spells to use in testing, absint (-20ish) > burn (-15ish) > nuke always gave me a dINT of MyINT-1, testing on mandies outside of windy.

[Radec]

MDT (Shell) vs SDT
They're calculated seperately, Sahagins take 50% dmg from water magic unbuffed, 25% with bubble armor (shell ws) up. Other elements do full damage, 50% with bubble armor. (Didn't do significant testing here, as there is no way to determine order from 0.5*0.5)

Pulled some WHM and MNK Sahagin, dispelled the mnks until a whm cast shell (shell1) on them. Using Shell1 = 24/256 MDT, damage was as follows using water2 as a sch/whm with no +MAB gear on

INT DMG
93  70
94  71
95  71
96  72
97  72
98  73
99  73
100 74
101 74
102 75
103 75
104 76
105 76
106 77
107 77
108 77
109 77
110 78

Dispelled the MNK, set my INT to 93. Aero2 then did 175 DMG, Thunder2 did 240. Determined mnk to have 31 INT.

...*SDT*MDT and ...*MDT*SDT have differint values for water2 at dINT =62, 64, 78 in the bounds I tested.

dINT   Shell*Trait   Trait*Shell
62     71            70
64     72            71
78     78            77

SDT comes before MDT.

Coming soon, Shell vs Weather - mercifully I can leave sagahins for this, as SDT is no longer a factor.

[Radec]

In all testing, please keep in mind it's fairly likely MAB operates on a x/1024 system as well. I'll try to confirm this, but any mab tests try to account for that every item of MAB you add could have a +/- 1/1024 variance in actual value.

[Yugl]

I would also like to point out that while MDT (Shell) does NOT affect Breath attacks, Mob Resistance will. Tested on Aern and Light Elementals. Flying Hip Press on the Light Elemental yielded the correct damage despite having shell up. However, Radiant Breath dropped to ~19 DMG (1/16 resist). Another test on Aerns yielded the same result: 1313 HP and Aern had shell + Light resist. The damage base is 382, but the damage came out to be 191. If shell were in play, it would be less than that. If only shell were in play, it would be more damage.

[Yugl]

Aern PLD Shell III (When on); Windsdy; BLU/BLM

STAT     Leafstorm   Leafstorm   Leafstorm   Thermal   Thermal   Regurgitation   Regurgitation   Whiskers   Whiskers   Whisker
STR      93          93          93          93        93        93              93              93         93         93
VIT      89          89          89          89        89        89              89              89         89         89
DEX      75          75          75          75        75        75              75              75         75         75
MND      90          90          90          90        90        90              90              90         90         90
INT      93          93          93          93        93        93              93              93         93         93
MAB      0           5           5           0         5         0               0               0          5          5
Shell?   Y           Y           N           Y         Y         Y               N               Y          N          Y
Result   389         405         499         561       584       288             355             631        719        656

What is Regurgitation's TM?

Edit: Uh oh, the Leafstorm numbers suggest the fTP is ACTUALLY....

2.7545454545454545...-2.7636363636363636363636363

I can't get the number with just 2.75 and it seems like we've run into a fraction. Interestingly, that 2.754545454545454 had to end with 6 to work.

[Radec]

Regarding weather bonus: It's actually 10% bonus, no x/1024 system

No MAB, tests done on Tiny Mandragora outside windy. Since they have no level range, they all have exactly 6 INT.

Thunder3+Thunderstorm+Obi, Darksday

101/1024 vs 102/1024
dINT = 87, result was 522 DMG (102)
102/1024 vs 103/1024
dINT = 89, result was 525 DMG (102)
102/1024 vs 1.1
dINT = 90, result was 528 DMG (1.1) *Edit: This was a typo, mandragora took 528 not 527 as originally posted. 527 would've meant 1+102/1024*

At this point until shown otherwise, I'm going to operate assuming that all listed values are exact and not /1024 (Staves, MAB, Monster Resist, Magic Burst)

Shell(MDT) would be the exception as that has been proven(? Honestly, never checked) to use at least /256 system.

[Radec]

I'm going to edit all these together into 1 post once it's all tested, but going to keep bumping w/ new posts until we've got the order worked out.

Confirmed Weather before MAB

Thunder3 + Thunderstorm + Obi + Novio, Darksday
dINT = 88
Weather > MAB results in 560DMG
MAB > Weather results in 561DMG
Tested to 560, Weather comes before MAB

[Radec]

Confirmed Staff before Weather

Thunder3 + Thunderstorm + Obi, Darksday, Jupiter's Staff
dINT = 94
Weather > Staff results in 614DMG
Staff > Weather results in 613DMG
Tested to 613, Staff comes before weather

[Radec]

Confirmed Affinity before Weather

Thunder3 + Thunderstorm + Obi, Darksday, Indra DMG+5
dINT = 88
Weather > Affinity results in 681DMG
Affinity > Weather results in 682DMG
Tested to 682, Affinity comes before weather

[Radec]

"How do you find the places to check, Rad?"

I try to only compare 2 things at once, so I have
DMG12 = Floor(Floor((Floor(dINT*M)+V)*Thing1)*Thing2)
DMG21 = Floor(Floor((Floor(dINT*M)+V)*Thing2)*Thing1)
Then I run that over a large dINT range, usually 50-150, and look for all the spots where DMG12 isn't equal to DMG21. Adjust dINT so it lines up with one of those, and bam, instant test.

Matlab:

Spoiler: show

m = 1.5;
v = 345;
thing1 = 1.3;
thing2 = 1.1;
for i=1:100
    d(1,i) = floor(floor((floor(i*m)+v)*thing1)*thing2);
    d(2,i) = floor(floor((floor(i*m)+v)*thing2)*thing1);
    d(3,i) = d(1,i) - d(2,i);
end

Excel:

Spoiler: show

A1 = dINT
B1 = Floor(Floor((Floor(A1*M, 1)+V)*Thing1, 1)*Thing2, 1)
C1 = Floor(Floor((Floor(A1*M, 1)+V)*Thing2, 1)*Thing1, 1)
D1=IF((B1-C1)=0,"",B1-C1)

repeat until dINT range is covered

Edit: Fixed code for Excel, Floor uses ; instead of , in openoffice

Edit: Good tip from zagex, changed the value for D1 so it doesn't display anything if it was 0, makes it a lot easier to read.

[Yugl]

Term addition! SDT = Species Damage Taken

This separates it from MDT, which is calculated separately.