O noooo.... what the hell at complicating things even further with anothe new term "SDT"....
Just failed to simplify MDT+MDB and now you guys saying its actually SDT+MDT+MDB.... /stagger lol
O noooo.... what the hell at complicating things even further with anothe new term "SDT"....
Just failed to simplify MDT+MDB and now you guys saying its actually SDT+MDT+MDB.... /stagger lol
If i understood correctly, those methods are for determining a mob's INT from 2 observed damage values right ? If i'm correct i would rephrase that question-title : "How do you find the places to check, Rad?"
Also for the Excel version, i'm having issues with built-in Solver, as it systematically fails when there is a single INT() in one of the formulas...
How do you make Solver works ?
I doubt Matlab has this problem but i don't have this software ;;
Somewhat random, but I had a thought last night about this. Impact might make it easier to sort out the effects of MAB (or it's potential /1024 value) because Summoner can cast it without MAB and it's a fairly high damage spell.
Twilight Cape is a separate term from Weather and Affinity. But I'm not sure where it lands in the equation.
Well for the Excel try fixing FLOOR(A1*M ; 1) by putting FLOOR(A1*M, 1). Replace all ; with , instead.
Excel is FLOOR(Number, Significance)
Number = The number you want to floor
Significance = To what place you want to floor the number (1 = Whole Number, .1 = Tenth Place, and so forth)
Try this and see if it worksCode:A1 = dINT B1 = Floor(Floor((Floor(A1*M, 1)+V)*Thing1, 1)*Thing2, 1) C1 = Floor(Floor((Floor(A1*M, 1)+V)*Thing1, 1)*Thing2, 1) D1 = B1-C1
I have the int before this step, I just use a dINT range to look for places to test.
Next test once I log in is Staff Bonus vs SDT.
I'll take a ghost, SDT = 50% to ice, and aquillo's staff for 1.15 mulitplier.
Thing1 = 1.15
Thing2 = 0.5
Ghost will have (Random number here) 40 int, I'll find this with things like thunder3, aero3. 2-3 different spells, enough to get a single possible int value without killing the target.
I run that on dINT from 1-100, and find for Blizz3:
Spoiler: show
First difference is at dINT=5, then 6. I'll be at ~90 INT base, so I'll look for something in the 50-70 range. Here, dINT = 61, 62, 69, and 70 would work (236/235, 237/236, 243/242, 244/243 damage depending on order)
Confirmed Staff before SDT
Blizzard3, Thundersday, Aquilo's Staff. MAB +50 (36 trait + 10 merits + 2 arcane cuffs, 98+12 INT for test spell)
Bogy is Gusgen has 33 int (Fire3 in 100INT, +50 MAB did 592)
dINT = 77
Staff > SDT results in 375DMG
SDT > Staff results in 373DMG
Tested to 375, Staff comes before SDT
Confirmed Affinity before SDT
New bogy, Fire3 did 597. INT is 31.
Blizzard3, Thundersday, Varuna's Staff(DMG+5). MAB +50 (36 trait + 10 merits + 2 arcane cuffs, 98+3 INT for test spell)
dINT=70
Affinity > SDT results in 414DMG
SDT > Affinity results in 412DMG
Tested to 414, Affinity comes before SDT
Confirmed Staff before Affinity
Pachypodium in Abyssea-Tahrongi has 61 INT (100INT +50MAB for me, Fire3 = 529, fire2=258, fire=111)
Using Atma of the undying (20% DMG ice affinity)
dINT = 44, MAB = 50 (98+7 int, aquilo's, arcane cuffs. Blizzard 3)
Affinity > Staff results in 798DMG
Staff > Affinity results in 796DMG
Tested to 796, Staff comes before Affinity
Turns out, no.
Blizz3 on lvl0 mandies, 6INT. I'm in 93+7 from hailstorm, on thundersday.
Blizz3 lands for 530 Damage, which lines up with a single 1.15 multiplier but not 1.1*1.05 or 1.05*1.1.
I never got a 5% bonus from cape without a 10% bonus from weather as well though, so it might be possible there is a point where cape*weather = 1.15 but cape alone isn't =5%
Related tests
Day+weather is 1.2, not 1.21 (Thunder3+Obi+Day+Storm = 570 dINT=87 MAB+0)
Day+Weather+Cape is 1.25 (Thunder3+Cape+Obi+Day+Storm = 595 dINT=87 MAB+0)
Sahagin take 50% DMG from water and they gain shell from their TP move (TP move could be labeled incorrectly though). Without the shell move: Water 50% Aero 100%; With the shell move: Water 25% Aero 50%. Assuming the shell move is 50%, that works out as 1.5*1.5.
Possible Objections and why these objections are not valid:
1. The shell MDT could be 25%: If that were the case, and it were additive Aero would not take 50% DMG
2. MDT doesn't cap at 50%: It would then be 100% MDT
3. It's actually MDB that is reducing your damage by 50%: Radec did the test so he can probably find evidence to refute that; if not, just do another test since it's easy
Also, compilation of OOP (Order Of Operation) so far:
SDT > DY/Weather/Twilight Cape > MAB
SDT > MDT
Weather > MAB
Staff > Weather
Affinity > Weather
Staff > SDT
Affinity > SDT
Staff > Affinity
This is possible, but is an easy test to do (with LS atm, will post it later if no one else tries - dispel a sahagin whm so no shell, then start with an MDB value appropriate for the level - MDB+12 seems likely for the sahagin in yuhtunga)3. It's actually MDB that is reducing your damage by 50%: Radec did the test so he can probably find evidence to refute that; if not, just do another test since it's easy
Determine int using nonwater spells, if you can't line up a value, change MDB until you can. Ideally done using 0 MAB so only term altering damage after dINT*M+V is MDB.
Nuke w/ Water now, 3 possible cases
1. SDT is actually MDB for a single element, so (dINT*M+V)*(1/(1+SDT+MDB)) - in this case, SDT would be 100.
2. SDT comes before MDB, (dINT*M+V)*SDT*(1/(1+MDB)) - SDT is 0.5 here
3. SDT comes after MDB, (dINT*M+V)*(1/(1+MDB))*SDT - SDT is 0.5 here
MDB and MAB are in the same floor operation, but MAB/MDB is not rounded to X.XX before multiplied to existing damage.
Did 2 checks for this:
Does MAB after MDB?
dINT = 64, +7MAB(Novio), +12MDB on target (lvl30ish sahagin whm)
Blizzard3
floor(floor((floor(64*1.5)+320)*1.07)/1.12) = 397
floor(floor((floor(64*1.5)+320)/1.12)*1.07) = 396
Did 397, MAB could come before MDB, but
floor((floor(64*1.5)+320)*1.07/1.12) = 397 as well.
dINT=61, +7MAB(Novio), +12MDB on target (lvl30ish sahagin whm)
floor((floor(61*1.5)+320)*1.07/1.12) = 392
Note: if you floor MAB/MDB to the X.XX place it ends up being 0.95 rather than 0.95535714... and the result is 390. "After calculating the ratio of MAB to MDB, this term is truncated to two decimal places"(Wiki, May 4th 2011) is definitely incorrect.
floor(floor((floor(61*1.5)+320)*1.07)/1.12) = 391
Did 392, MAB and MDB are both accounted for during the same flooring stage.
If you treat MAB and MDB as 107 and 112 respectively in the above examples, rather than 1.07 and 1.12, all forms (MAB > MDB, MDB > MAB, MAB/MDB > nothing) come out equal to each other, and to (MAB/MAB>nothing).
As at least most people I've worked with use MAB as a 1.XX (so they can skip the /100 calculation later, when doing by hand), leaving the calculation in the same step works best for me.
First three columns: Base damage at different dINT valuesCode:dINT INT*2 PlusBase Option1P1 Option1P2 Option2P1 Option2P2 Difference 1 2 551 430 370 475 371 1 2 4 553 432 372 476 371 -1 3 6 555 433 373 478 373 0 4 8 557 435 375 480 375 0 5 10 559 436 375 481 375 0 6 12 561 438 377 483 377 0 7 14 563 439 378 485 378 0 8 16 565 441 380 487 380 0 9 18 567 442 381 488 381 0 10 20 569 444 382 490 382 0 11 22 571 446 384 492 384 0 12 24 573 447 385 493 385 0 13 26 575 449 387 495 386 -1 14 28 577 450 387 497 388 1 15 30 579 452 389 499 389 0 16 32 581 453 390 500 390 0 17 34 583 455 392 502 392 0 18 36 585 457 393 504 393 0 19 38 587 458 394 506 395 1 20 40 589 460 396 507 396 0 21 42 591 461 397 509 397 0 22 44 593 463 399 511 399 0 23 46 595 464 400 512 400 0
Next two columns: MDT > MDB
Next two columns: MDB > MDT
Last column: Shows if there is a difference in damage
Since WHM Elementals have 16 MDB and Shell IV gives (56/256) resistance, this tests the order of operations.
MDT = Base*(200/256)
MDB = Base*(100/116)
Note that the (100/116) was not floored because Radec found that it is not floored in other tests. When I checked, I got 395 at dINT=19. Hence, MDB > MDT.
Charged Whiskers
DEX=74
INT=97
Elemental's INT=78
Prior to dINT*TM, the damage is 549
So far, SDT > Weather > MAB/MDB > MDT
Still looking for magic burst.
Edit: Further tests showed MAB/MDB to be the same item (Or at least both precede MDT). I added MAB to the set up and received a number at dINT=13. I then matched the MAB and added 10INT to get the exact number at dINT=23.
Magic Burst > MDT
Target: Light Elemental at Sky
* Known MDB 16 (I used 16MAB to counter this)
* Shell IV
* INT=78 (Checked using normal CW)
Stats
DEX=73
INT=101
MAB=16
CW Damage: 753
2-Step Skillchain: Savage > Cannon > Charged Whisker
Locate 753 on this chart at dINT=23 and you find that Magic Burst has to precede MDT.
Code:TM Base dINT INT*TM PlusBase Bonus1 Bonus1|2 Bonus2 Bonus2|1 Difference Bonus1 Bonus2 2 697 1 2 699 908 709 546 709 0 1.3 0.78125 2 697 2 4 701 911 711 547 711 0 1.3 0.78125 2 697 3 6 703 913 713 549 713 0 1.3 0.78125 2 697 4 8 705 916 715 550 715 0 1.3 0.78125 2 697 5 10 707 919 717 552 717 0 1.3 0.78125 2 697 6 12 709 921 719 553 718 -1 1.3 0.78125 2 697 7 14 711 924 721 555 721 0 1.3 0.78125 2 697 8 16 713 926 723 557 724 1 1.3 0.78125 2 697 9 18 715 929 725 558 725 0 1.3 0.78125 2 697 10 20 717 932 728 560 728 0 1.3 0.78125 2 697 11 22 719 934 729 561 729 0 1.3 0.78125 2 697 12 24 721 937 732 563 731 -1 1.3 0.78125 2 697 13 26 723 939 733 564 733 0 1.3 0.78125 2 697 14 28 725 942 735 566 735 0 1.3 0.78125 2 697 15 30 727 945 738 567 737 -1 1.3 0.78125 2 697 16 32 729 947 739 569 739 0 1.3 0.78125 2 697 17 34 731 950 742 571 742 0 1.3 0.78125 2 697 18 36 733 952 743 572 743 0 1.3 0.78125 2 697 19 38 735 955 746 574 746 0 1.3 0.78125 2 697 20 40 737 958 748 575 747 -1 1.3 0.78125 2 697 21 42 739 960 750 577 750 0 1.3 0.78125 2 697 22 44 741 963 752 578 751 -1 1.3 0.78125 2 697 23 46 743 965 753 580 754 1 1.3 0.78125 2 697 24 48 745 968 756 582 756 0 1.3 0.78125 2 697 25 50 747 971 758 583 757 -1 1.3 0.78125 2 697 26 52 749 973 760 585 760 0 1.3 0.78125 2 697 27 54 751 976 762 586 761 -1 1.3 0.78125 2 697 28 56 753 978 764 588 764 0 1.3 0.78125 2 697 29 58 755 981 766 589 765 -1 1.3 0.78125 2 697 30 60 757 984 768 591 768 0 1.3 0.78125
Magic Burst > MDB
Same mob as in previous post.
Stats:
DEX=73
INT=92
MAB=0
CW DMG=797
Check chart for dINT14 and you get that when you have Magic burst before MDB
Code:TM Base dINT INT*TM PlusBase Bonus1 Bonus1|2 Bonus2 Bonus2|1 Difference Bonus1 Bonus2 2 684 1 2 686 891 768 591 768 0 1.3 0.862068966 2 684 2 4 688 894 770 593 770 0 1.3 0.862068966 2 684 3 6 690 897 773 594 772 -1 1.3 0.862068966 2 684 4 8 692 899 775 596 774 -1 1.3 0.862068966 2 684 5 10 694 902 777 598 777 0 1.3 0.862068966 2 684 6 12 696 904 779 600 780 1 1.3 0.862068966 2 684 7 14 698 907 781 601 781 0 1.3 0.862068966 2 684 8 16 700 910 784 603 783 -1 1.3 0.862068966 2 684 9 18 702 912 786 605 786 0 1.3 0.862068966 2 684 10 20 704 915 788 606 787 -1 1.3 0.862068966 2 684 11 22 706 917 790 608 790 0 1.3 0.862068966 2 684 12 24 708 920 793 610 793 0 1.3 0.862068966 2 684 13 26 710 923 795 612 795 0 1.3 0.862068966 2 684 14 28 712 925 797 613 796 -1 1.3 0.862068966 2 684 15 30 714 928 800 615 799 -1 1.3 0.862068966 2 684 16 32 716 930 801 617 802 1 1.3 0.862068966 2 684 17 34 718 933 804 618 803 -1 1.3 0.862068966 2 684 18 36 720 936 806 620 806 0 1.3 0.862068966
Multiple Target Damage Reduction
before MAB
Firaga3
+50MAB, 104INT, vs 2x 6INT tiny mandragora
882 DMG, would be 883 after MAB
Before Affinity
Firaga3
Agni's Staff+2(DMG+5), +50MAB, 101INT, vs 2x 6INT tiny mandragora
1138 DMG, would be 1140 if after affinity
Before Staff
Aeroga3
Auster's Staff, +50MAB, 99INT vs 2x 6INT tiny mandragora
916 DMG, would be 918 after Staff
Multiple Target reduction appears to be the first step after M and V calculations
Strange results, in light of -V spell multiplier being 2.2995-2.2999 - aja spells and impact actually use 2.3, when compared to 2.299_
Also: Aeroja is not a 2.333 multiplier, but the V value is 848 (not 844 from wiki). Impact is V = 943.
Tests:
Aeroja - +50MAB, using V = 848
M=2.2990-2.2999 would give 1684 for dINT=120Code:dINT DMG 118 1678 119 1681 120 1686
M=2.333 would give 1684 1687 1690 for the 3 dINTs shown.
Impact - +51 MAB, using V = 943
M = 2.2990-2.2999 gives 1873 for dINT = 130Code:dINT DMG 129 1870 130 1875 131 1878 132 1881
Fire5 +50MAB
V = 785Code:dINT DMG 95 1504 96 1507
Magic Burst > Day/Weather
Mob: Light ElementalCode:TM Base dINT INT*TM PlusBase Bonus1 Bonus1|2 Bonus2 Bonus2|1 Difference Bonus1 Bonus2 2 697 1 2 699 908 998 768 998 0 1.3 1.1 2 697 2 4 701 911 1002 771 1002 0 1.3 1.1 2 697 3 6 703 913 1004 773 1004 0 1.3 1.1 2 697 4 8 705 916 1007 775 1007 0 1.3 1.1 2 697 5 10 707 919 1010 777 1010 0 1.3 1.1 2 697 6 12 709 921 1013 779 1012 -1 1.3 1.1 2 697 7 14 711 924 1016 782 1016 0 1.3 1.1
* INT=78 (Seems to be the case with the one closest to the entrance to Valalalla w/e it's called)
* MDB = 16
Thunderday + Obi
Stats
DEX=73
INT= 84
MAB=16
dINT is 6, so if you look at 6, it will either be 1013 or 1012. The damage came out to be 1013, so bonus 1 (Magic Burst) came before day bonus.
Elemental Staff (Non-Magian) > Magic Burst
Same Mob as before
Stats
DEX=78
INT=90
MAB=16
Obi Bonus
dINT=12. 1229 DMG on Elemental.Code:TM Base dINT INT*TM PlusBase Bonus1 Bonus1|2 Bonus2 Bonus2|1 Difference Bonus1 Bonus2 Bonus 3 Bonus1|3 Bonus3|1 Bonus2v1 Bonus2v3 Diff 2 724 1 2 726 943 1037 798 1037 0 1.3 1.1 1.15 1084 1084 1192 1192 0 2 724 2 4 728 946 1040 800 1040 0 1.3 1.1 1.15 1087 1088 1195 1196 -1 2 724 3 6 730 949 1043 803 1043 0 1.3 1.1 1.15 1091 1090 1200 1199 1 2 724 4 8 732 951 1046 805 1046 0 1.3 1.1 1.15 1093 1093 1202 1202 0 2 724 5 10 734 954 1049 807 1049 0 1.3 1.1 1.15 1097 1097 1206 1206 0 2 724 6 12 736 956 1051 809 1051 0 1.3 1.1 1.15 1099 1099 1208 1208 0 2 724 7 14 738 959 1054 811 1054 0 1.3 1.1 1.15 1102 1102 1212 1212 0 2 724 8 16 740 962 1058 814 1058 0 1.3 1.1 1.15 1106 1106 1216 1216 0 2 724 9 18 742 964 1060 816 1060 0 1.3 1.1 1.15 1108 1108 1218 1218 0 2 724 10 20 744 967 1063 818 1063 0 1.3 1.1 1.15 1112 1111 1223 1222 1 2 724 11 22 746 969 1065 820 1066 1 1.3 1.1 1.15 1114 1114 1225 1225 0 2 724 12 24 748 972 1069 822 1068 -1 1.3 1.1 1.15 1117 1118 1228 1229 -1 2 724 13 26 750 975 1072 825 1072 0 1.3 1.1 1.15 1121 1120 1233 1232 1 2 724 14 28 752 977 1074 827 1075 1 1.3 1.1 1.15 1123 1123 1235 1235 0