Magic Damage Order of Operations

[Yugl]

SDT > Magic Burst

Target: Volcanic Bomb
INT=49
XP=45
MDT (All except fire)=50%

Stat
INT=75
DEX=75
MAB=5
Result=507
dINT=26

Look on the chart for dINT=26. Since I didn't think about WSC, I didn't see a point at which MB|SDT and SDT|MB differed, so I added a third element (MAB) to make a difference arise. Interestingly, I did not get the Magic Burst message, but the damage makes no sense otherwise (And I did it ~5x, so it's definitely landing at the right time). My guess is that if the element does not match one of the SC's element, you won't get the message, but you'll get the bonus (Fire is the only element for light SC on Bombs).

TM   Base   dINT   INT*TM   PlusBase   Bonus1   Bonus1|2   Bonus2   Bonus2|1   Difference   Bonus1   Bonus2   Bonus 3   Bonus1|2|3   Bonus2|1|3   Difference
2    693    1      2        695        903      451        347      451        0            1.3      0.5      1.05      473          473          0
2    693    2      4        697        906      453        348      452        -1           1.3      0.5      1.05      475          474          1
2    693    3      6        699        908      454        349      453        -1           1.3      0.5      1.05      476          475          1
2    693    4      8        701        911      455        350      455        0            1.3      0.5      1.05      477          477          0
2    693    5      10       703        913      456        351      456        0            1.3      0.5      1.05      478          478          0
2    693    6      12       705        916      458        352      457        -1           1.3      0.5      1.05      480          479          1
2    693    7      14       707        919      459        353      458        -1           1.3      0.5      1.05      481          480          1
2    693    8      16       709        921      460        354      460        0            1.3      0.5      1.05      483          483          0
2    693    9      18       711        924      462        355      461        -1           1.3      0.5      1.05      485          484          1
2    693    10     20       713        926      463        356      462        -1           1.3      0.5      1.05      486          485          1
2    693    11     22       715        929      464        357      464        0            1.3      0.5      1.05      487          487          0
2    693    12     24       717        932      466        358      465        -1           1.3      0.5      1.05      489          488          1
2    693    13     26       719        934      467        359      466        -1           1.3      0.5      1.05      490          489          1
2    693    14     28       721        937      468        360      468        0            1.3      0.5      1.05      491          491          0
2    693    15     30       723        939      469        361      469        0            1.3      0.5      1.05      492          492          0
2    693    16     32       725        942      471        362      470        -1           1.3      0.5      1.05      494          493          1
2    693    17     34       727        945      472        363      471        -1           1.3      0.5      1.05      495          494          1
2    693    18     36       729        947      473        364      473        0            1.3      0.5      1.05      496          496          0
2    693    19     38       731        950      475        365      474        -1           1.3      0.5      1.05      498          497          1
2    693    20     40       733        952      476        366      475        -1           1.3      0.5      1.05      499          498          1
2    693    21     42       735        955      477        367      477        0            1.3      0.5      1.05      500          500          0
2    693    22     44       737        958      479        368      478        -1           1.3      0.5      1.05      502          501          1
2    693    23     46       739        960      480        369      479        -1           1.3      0.5      1.05      504          502          2
2    693    24     48       741        963      481        370      481        0            1.3      0.5      1.05      505          505          0
2    693    25     50       743        965      482        371      482        0            1.3      0.5      1.05      506          506          0
2    693    26     52       745        968      484        372      483        -1           1.3      0.5      1.05      508          507          1
2    693    27     54       747        971      485        373      484        -1           1.3      0.5      1.05      509          508          1
2    693    28     56       749        973      486        374      486        0            1.3      0.5      1.05      510          510          0

Thus far, it looks like...

Multiple Target Reduction > Ele Staff > Affinity > SDT > MB > Weather/Day Bonus > MAB > MDT

[Yugl]

Magic against pots is MDT not SDT. I get full damage from Heat Breath unlike with SDT mobs.

Edit: Double checked using Order of Operations. INT=64; XP=38; RDM; MDB=12

[Masamune]

Nice Yugle and Radec^^.

Just wondering tough: Yugl don't like mentioning which spell you testing with ? been like 2 pages worth of nice tests.... but i had to guess spell is *maybe" Charged Whisker ?

[Radec]

Having sorted that out, I present an updated Magic Damage Calculator.

Some notes:
To find *exact* damage, make sure you disable (or force) mcrits, and use the obi if weather available.
The displayed value is the "average" damage done in that gearset/condition, thunder nukes on thundersday w/out obi get a 0.1/3 bonus, for 1/3 weather procs.
Adding mCrit will not always raise average damage (if it's not enough +mab to raise dmg by 1, it's ignored)
Banishes+Holy use dMND instead of dINT, everything else uses dINT.
M taken to be 2.2998 for all -V spells
Some non-implemented spells are available with a decent guess at V rating (Thunder5, Blizzaja/Thundaja)
Affinity uses the +XX% system similar to abyssea (to allow you to add atma bonus as needed). A +5DMG staff is "30" affinity. Edit: Affinity is auto-assumed to be of the element of the current spell. Normal HQ/NQ staves only work on their own element/element they weaken.
MDT and SDT sign convention: Flans would get "25" MDT, Demons would get "-25". Similar for SDT, which is as far as I know, negative only.
Any gear with an effect that doesn't list a number (Uggalepih Pendant, Artemis' Medal) isn't accounted for, add the value to augments.
Latent Effects are assumed to be active (Sorc Ring always on)
Goetia+2 set bonus is not accounted for.
Any augmented gear (Often magian items, as well) you'll have to add yourself, the gearlists were pulled from a polutils export of the equip/armor dats.

Anything else, feel free to PM.

Edit: I do have soft/hard dINT caps theoretically supported but due to lack of information, none are actually implemented. If you find those breakpoints let me know and I'll update the spell info list.

[Yugl]

Nice Yugle and Radec^^.

Just wondering tough: Yugl don't like mentioning which spell you testing with ? been like 2 pages worth of nice tests.... but i had to guess spell is *maybe" Charged Whisker ?

Mostly CW yes, I might have used Leafstorm for some, but you can tell which spell because I generally list DEX for CW and STR for Leafstorm.

[Yugl]

I cannot get translate to work and I can't be assed to read line by line, how is the order of operations working on that website?

[Mojo]

base + fINT > HQ/NQ staff > affinity > magic burst > magic burst bonus > resist > day/weather > mab/mdb > MDT reduction/amplication (in order of which gets truncated first)

[Yugl]

When tested we found MB to come after resist (At least mob specific forced resist [SDT]). Which did they check for and did they post any relevant data on that?

[Mojo]

I have no idea, that's just what was posted there.

[Byrthnoth]

I hypothesize that -ja resistance reduction and COR AF3+1/2 feet are affecting the same term, and that that term may be the monster specific damage resistance term.

Someone prove me wrong/right!

References:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/988...otency-Testing
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/101007-ja-Testing

[Radec]

I hypothesize that -ja resistance reduction and COR AF3+1/2 feet are affecting the same term, and that that term may be the monster specific damage resistance term.

Someone prove me wrong/right!

References:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/988...otency-Testing
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/101007-ja-Testing

Waterja with AF3+2 Legs on 2x Brook Sahagin, shells dispelled - 529 each
Repeated Waterja - 554 each, ~5% boost.

Appears to be separate term to me, I don't have the ability to test stacking quickdraw with this.

[Yugl]

Known for elemental staffs, but it came up as a question, so I wasn't sure if there had been testing on this:

Magic Affinity on Magian Staffs does have negative effects for the inferior opposing element.

Varuna's Staff+2
SCH/WHM
No MAB gear
INT=77
Rabbits at Ron (INT=6 if I recall my BLU tests correctly)

Blizzard IV (No Staff): 648
Blizzard IV (Staff): 842 (421 resisted)

Aero IV (No Staff): 582 (291 resisted)
Aero IV (Staff): 407

Result: Blizzard received a 1.3 multiplier and Aero IV received a 0.7 multiplier. Seems to be minus or plus the multiplier bonus (0.3 in this case).

[Byrthnoth]

I got lucky tonight and realized that my 0 MAB "*: Ni" spell did exactly 256 damage.

AF2+1 head and Moldy each raised it to 267 damage individually (+11/256?)
AF2+1 head and Moldy together raised it to 279 damage. (+23/256, oops!)

There are two options:
1) MAB is not on a /256 scale
2) MAB applies weirdly to Ni spells due to the skill relationship they added
3) MAB is applied to an unrounded base damage number.

Also Innin gives the same bonus that it did before (+30 to +10%) on the same time scale (-4% per minute), which means being able to use it faster has raised the average bonus from it (+24% instead of +20%). Assuming it does the same to Critical Hit Rate and Acc, hooray!

[Radec]

I got lucky tonight and realized that my 0 MAB "*: Ni" spell did exactly 256 damage.

AF2+1 head and Moldy each raised it to 267 damage individually (+11/256?)
AF2+1 head and Moldy together raised it to 279 damage. (+23/256, oops!)

There are two options:
1) MAB is not on a /256 scale
2) MAB applies weirdly to Ni spells due to the skill relationship they added
3) MAB is applied to an unrounded base damage number.

Also Innin gives the same bonus that it did before (+30 to +10%) on the same time scale (-4% per minute), which means being able to use it faster has raised the average bonus from it (+24% instead of +20%). Assuming it does the same to Critical Hit Rate and Acc, hooray!

MAB, at least moldy, is either exactly 5% or operates on a n/2048, back in order of operations testing I showed it wasn't 50/1024 or 51/1024.

Edit: Mean to edit in the link, I definitely did this test, but can't find it now.

Edit2: Except you're showing that it's <5%, which definitely conflicts with my memory.

Edit3: I'll replicate it later, mule doesn't have enough ability to vary int and main busy.

[Byrthnoth]

This is confusing. I lucked out and used almost his exact stats (73 INT, 269 skill, Hume NIN/DRK), but I have 5 Hyoton merits (Base Damage +10). It should still compare directly to his INT+10 case though, with 1 skill difference, if M is 1 and merits are as we assume. For some reason I do more damage than his 10 INT and 5 Skill though.
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.htm...82&h=50&p=1#15

Well, it works out if you assume Ninjutsu merits are MAB+2 instead of base damage+2.
233 damage spell * 1.1 = 256
233 * 1.15 = 267
233 * 1.2 = 279
233 * 1.34 = 312
All match, I just didn't realize what Ninjutsu merits did.

[Byrthnoth]

So, dicking around with Ninjutsu!
I started by reading this thread by Motenten/Kinematics. Then I went out to play around.

Ichi:

Spoiler: show

From (at least) dINT=30 to dINT=76, M = .5
I cannot test lower than that to verify that M is ever 1, as exists in the lore. dINT=76 is the cap (66 base spell damage, or 132 with full skill bonus)

Assuming Wild Rabbit's INT is 6, the formula for base damage would be:
FLOOR(28+dINT*.5)

Ninja Main gets a Skill-related damage bonus to Ninjutsu, but Ninja Sub does not. Motenten (in the thread above) showed that it was a skill-based % boost.
(Skill-50)*.5 works very well for the Ichi % boost. This was tested and found to be accurate at 8 points between 90 and 211 skill.

This bonus begins at 50 skill and maxes out 250 skill (2x)

Ni:

Spoiler: show

For Ni spells, M = 1 and D = 69 (Assuming Wild Rabbit's INT = 6), so the formula for base damage would be:
Base Damage = 69 + dINT

Ninja Main gets a Skill-related damage bonus to Ninjutsu, but Ninja Sub does not. Motenten (in the thread above) showed that it was a skill-based % boost.
(Skill-125)*.5 works very well for the Ichi % boost. This was tested and found to be relatively accurate (sometimes +1 damage) at 7 points between 150 and 273 skill.

This bonus likely begins at 125 skill and maxes out 325 skill (@200%).

San:

Spoiler: show

My mule's Ninja is only 75, and I don't intend to level it higher. Thus, I can't test the effect of skill over cap on San spells.

For San Spells, assuming Wild Rabbit INT is 6, M = 1.5 and V = 134, so the formula for base damage would be:
Base Damage = 1.5*dINT + 134

Judging by some posts by darkhorror in Motenten's thread, it looks like San also follows the same pattern as the other spells.
(Skill - 275)*.5

Found my mule's NIN AF/AF2 and figured out the approximate threshold. Something is consistently off with the numbers in the other thread. I suspect the MAB may be a little different than assumed.

Random other stuff:
* NIN AF2+1 head is still only 5 MAB

[Cymmina]

I got lucky tonight and realized that my 0 MAB "*: Ni" spell did exactly 256 damage.

AF2+1 head and Moldy each raised it to 267 damage individually (+11/256?)
AF2+1 head and Moldy together raised it to 279 damage. (+23/256, oops!)

There are two options:
1) MAB is not on a /256 scale
2) MAB applies weirdly to Ni spells due to the skill relationship they added
3) MAB is applied to an unrounded base damage number.

Also Innin gives the same bonus that it did before (+30 to +10%) on the same time scale (-4% per minute), which means being able to use it faster has raised the average bonus from it (+24% instead of +20%). Assuming it does the same to Critical Hit Rate and Acc, hooray!

We already know that MAB/MDB doesn't get rounded/floored before it is multiplied from looking at automaton attachments (I think Ice Maker specifically).

[Mougurijin]

Bah.
So having two pieces of Goetia +2 BLM AF3 gear triggers the set bonus? and the "Augments: Conserve MP" actually affects your damage?
I spent so long trying to figure out why some of my figures would never add up no matter how hard I tried...

I'm glad I always write down every piece of gear I am wearing when I test stuff, but it still took me a while to decide to look into what the set bonus actually did as it sounded like something irrelevant.

Anyway, I just thought I'd add that the set bonus is calculated somewhere after MAB, but I haven't tested if it's calculated after TMDA (MDT) as well.
Also, the set bonus is active and will trigger while wearing just two pieces...

Capped Fire1 (D=127) with +50 MAB and BLM AF3+2 Hat and Feet.
DMG = 380

127 * 1.5 = 190.5 (damage without set bonus)
380 / 190 = 2 (set bonus' varying multiplier)
127 * 2 = 254 ... 254 * 1.5 = 381 (set bonus, then MAB)
127 * 1.5 = 190.5 ... 190 * 2 = 380.5 (MAB, then set bonus)

[Yugl]

Only MDT comes after MAB, so it's either an inverse MDT bonus or the furthest multiplier. See if you can get a test against a mob using shell (Light Elemental is best).

[Mougurijin]

Just going to keep this short and post a few of the many findings I've found recently, before I go to bed.

- Burn seems to cap at INT-13, the tier that begins @ 150 INT. Burn is still INT-13 @ 356 INT.

- Some V values which are missing from BG wiki:
Aero 5: V=734, not 738
Thunder 5: V=874
Blizzaja: V=953
Comet: V=964 (although it seemed like it was V=919 at an earlier phase on the test server)

- A term for the bonus (*1.05) damage from casting matching element nukes after a -ja spell isn't mentioned on the magic damage page.
This bonus is applied before MAB, Day&Weather, and Resist.
This bonus is a separate term from Element Affinity.

- Nukes have minimum possible values for D.

Spell		V	D Min
			
Stone		10	7
Water		16	11
Aero		25	18
Fire		35	26
Blizzard	46	34	
Thunder		60	45
			
Stonega		56	49
Waterga		74	65

- For negative dINT values, the M value isn't as otherwiki says: "always 1.0".
For tier I to IV single target and I to III -aga elemental nukes:
M=1.0 becomes M=0.5
M=1.5 becomes M=1.0
M=2.0 becomes M=1.5...
...all except for Thunder IV, which for some bizzare reason it's M value wants to be ~1.55

Tested this with -24 dINT as BLM95 and -38 dINT as SCH95 Tarutaru... took quite a lot of effort getting it that low! :D

I was hoping Tier V and -ja nukes would just be negative dINT M = M-0.5, but it doesn't look like it's that simple. :(

An interesting thing now that I'm wondering... Maybe the M values after inflection point are the same values as they are for negative dINT?