The Official Forum fail thread: This game wasn't meant for alts.

[FHT]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-players/page8

Dammerung, why are you being so retarded on the OF? Stop rubbin your e-peen in front of everyone else, you don't look good & you don't look smart.

[Skai]

I don't know, it's pretty entertaining.

[Kirbyprime]

It's the same logic as finding a job. No experience = no job = no experience. How do I prove that you can do shit? By having "clears" ( previous jobs ).

[FHT]

It's the same logic as finding a job. No experience = no job = no experience. How do I prove that you can do shit? By having "clears" ( previous jobs ).

When people compare that game to a full time job you know shits are wrong.

Beside, Dammerung changed the main topic of the thread which was "People should not kick a person if the 100 soldiery message display" to "Look at me me me, I'm better than you because I can clear shit with my static and my X weapon that no one has yet" and clearly fail to understand why everyone argue with him.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Uh, he has a point though? PUGs and learning are generally bad because everyone has the expectation that they deserve to win, or they blindly follow "a" strat without understanding why.

If you have a clear, you've at least seen the fight. You should have a basic understanding of how it works. You can fuck up and account it to "oh I'm rusty". That's a good trait in a hostile PUG environment.

[FHT]

Uh, he has a point though? PUGs and learning are generally bad because everyone has the expectation that they deserve to win, or they blindly follow "a" strat without understanding why.

If you have a clear, you've at least seen the fight. You should have a basic understanding of how it works. You can fuck up and account it to "oh I'm rusty". That's a good trait in a hostile PUG environment.

Someone really summed it up at the end:

I find it very funny how this thread really derailed since the OP. The point was clearly stated at the beginning of the thread "100 Myth bonus being abused to kick first timers on dungeon/trials/raids runs"

Then of course you get the elitists in the thread who CAN. NOT. READ. Assuming that the OP is talking about farming runs and PF. No one ever mentioned in OP ANYTHING about PF...

Reading comprehension at its friggin finest

I don't know, it look pretty simple to me.

[Kirbyprime]

I mean, I can sympathize with them to an extent, NA data centers mean that DF is considered a learning area where you're not expected to have any experience, kicking in those situations because of the 100 myth message is pretty uncalled for.

That freaking thread went from generally "100 myth used to discriminate" to "100 myth used to discriminate in PF/Farm" to "100 myth used to discriminate in DF" all on the first page.

But hey, if I form a party that specifically says farm, I expect people to have cleared and no, I don't care if "I'm very good I just haven't cleared yet!".

[FHT]

But hey, if I form a party that specifically says farm, I expect people to have cleared and no, I don't care if "I'm very good I just haven't cleared yet!".

While I can (try to) understand this side of the community, no one even disregarded it or said it was wrong. One person might have explained why such a reaction can be stupid and they used this very example, but it does not really justify such a retardation, to the point of being passionate about polluting such a valid thread/complaint.

But we're also talking about the guy who went full idiot on the OF (about a week or so ago) to cry out loud because SE decided to nerf SCoB, which is totaly legit as well.

[bokchoykn]

While I can (try to) understand this side of the community, no one even disregarded it or said it was wrong. One person might have explained why such a reaction can be stupid and they used this very example, but it does not really justify such a retardation, to the point of being passionate about polluting such a valid thread/complaint.

But we're also talking about the guy who went full idiot on the OF (about a week or so ago) to cry out loud because SE decided to nerf SCoB, which is totaly legit as well.

I don't know how you can shit on someone for not respecting a valid complaint, and then turn around and refer to the SCoB complaints are "full idiot". That is hypocritical.

I think they're both valid complaints, even though I agree with neither of them. I'm gonna agree with Ellatrix and say that it's okay to discriminate against people who don't have the clear. However, I disagree with Ellatrix think that SCoB nerfs were 100% justified, although they should've made it a difficulty select (Story Mode: 1 chest, Normal Mode: 2 chests, Savage: 2 chests + title).

[FHT]

I don't know how you can shit on someone for not respecting a valid complaint, and then turn around and refer to the SCoB complaints are "full idiot". That is hypocritical.

He went full idiot because of the arguments he gave to push his complaint about it. The same kind of argument he gave in the thread posted above.

You may want to review the sens of the word hypocritical, because making this kind of complaints and then swap to being condescending toward others because his argument(s) are not valid is a form of hypocrisy.

Also, SCoB nerfing is something that was necessary for the sake of players who cannot play as much as others, so his "nerfing" complaint was not valid at all. Everyone who pay for the game monthly deserve to have their chance at any ingame feature. It does benefit alot of "casual" players today, it might benefit any hardcore/Elitist player(s)/or even you tomorrow, you never know.

[bokchoykn]

This complaint isn't valid because I disagree with it.

Yeah okay.

[FHT]

Yeah okay Bokchoykn? and the same could be said about you aka: "This complain is valid because I agree with it."

Only difference betwin us is that you failed to provide a solid reason that would justify your argument.

I don't give two cents about SCoB, I did T6 and thats it. I am not part of that train of headless chickens who run in circle just for the sake of being able to brag in Mor Dhona and look down on others, right now I just craft and raise gils while the game is all about gear threadmill, i'll start giving a damn when the progression start to go horizontal, so wheater I agree with it or not isn't relevant.

What is relevant is the fact that lots of people pay for the game which gate them already, on top of being pushed down by some arrogant braggarts (posted above) which are not even affected so yes, nerfing content for those casual/less talented player is legit, its not like if people such as dammerung would help them for free right? Its just so much better to shit on them right?

If SE ever decided to follow this mentality of not nerfing the content because some people can't tolerate to lose this pseudo/non-existant "special snowflake" feeling, SE would lose a great amount of money, while the playerbase would lose a great amount of players (and so potential candidates for future replacement(s) in your roster/FC.)

[Kaiyoko]

Everyone who pay for the game monthly deserve to have their chance at any ingame feature.

Wait everyone doesn't have a "chance" at doing all the ingame features? Last time I knew everyone was able to enter/participate in any content as long as they EARNED their way into it. Everyone has a "chance" to do all the ingame features. The only thing preventing players from getting to it is their own skill level and how much time they are willing to commit to it. If anyone is interested in actually using ingame features there is a minimum level of time investment and game skill/knowledge. What you're really saying people deserve is a reduction in the minimum level of time invested for plays that have less of it and/or lower skill / knowledge requirement.

Edit: While I agree the difficulty and time investment reduction does need to happen at some point in the life cycle of content to open it up to a wider player base as it becomes "obsolete". The nerfs happen to drastically giving no middle ground for players to grow and explore the differences from before. A newer MMO player that is interested in end game content has no growth with the current version of BCoB and SCoB because of the drastic nature of the nerfs in relation to the difficulty level of FCoB in comparison. While the echo is able to be turned off the current mechanics are mind numbing and really teach you nothing. I imagine if someone did turn off they would most likely be removed from the group quickly.

They really should have started with a gradual echo buff and removing the lock out and the final nerf is the mechanics that they currently have in place.

[The47thSen]

You've had up to 6 months to enjoy the content as it was. You've got a new set of toys now, it's time to let the other kids play with the old ones.

[bokchoykn]

Yeah okay Bokchoykn? and the same could be said about you aka: "This complain is valid because I agree with it."

I actually said they are valid complaints even though I disagree with both of them.

Only difference betwin us is that you failed to provide a solid reason that would justify your argument.

I don't give two cents about SCoB, I did T6 and thats it. I am not part of that train of headless chickens who run in circle just for the sake of being able to brag in Mor Dhona and look down on others, right now I just craft and raise gils while the game is all about gear threadmill, i'll start giving a damn when the progression start to go horizontal, so wheater I agree with it or not isn't relevant.

What is relevant is the fact that lots of people pay for the game which gate them already, on top of being pushed down by some arrogant braggarts (posted above) which are not even affected so yes, nerfing content for those casual/less talented player is legit, its not like if people such as dammerung would help them for free right? Its just so much better to shit on them right?

If SE ever decided to follow this mentality of not nerfing the content because some people can't tolerate to lose this pseudo/non-existant "special snowflake" feeling, SE would lose a great amount of money, while the playerbase would lose a great amount of players (and so potential candidates for future replacement(s) in your roster/FC.)

People play games for different reasons and find enjoyment from doing and accomplishing different things. If you prefer crafting internet cotton pants to slaying internet dragons, good for you.

You seem pretty insecure about yourself that you must put down all end-game raiders by painting all of them with the same brush and implying that we all do it to brag and look down on others. Why do you have to justify to us why you hate doing end game dungeons and getting end game rewards? Nobody here asked you and nobody here is telling you that you're wrong.

You complain that "elitists" aren't respecting the wishes and opinions of casuals, and then you go on this little rant about people who do end-game raids. You're really no different than the elitists that you hate so much.

You've had up to 6 months to enjoy the content as it was. You've got a new set of toys now, it's time to let the other kids play with the old ones.

Isn't that the issue? The other kids can't play with the old ones. They're not there anymore. They were replaced with cheaper versions. Any opportunity to experience that tier of content in its original form is gone.

[Dammerung]

If you're gonna complain about my post that said SCoB was destroyed, you should make sure to read it again where I updated the post a few times. In particular, they really need to add multiple tiers.

1. Storymode: echo+mechanics nerfs. no reward.
2. Normal: echo, no nerfs. 1 chest.
3. Hard: no echo, no nerfs. 2 chests like it is now.
4. Extreme: savage. either gear tokens or dyable or something else (extra sand/oil?).

This also preserves the encounters to allow for player growth. T5 was a wall for many players. T9 is going to be a mountain for those same players.

[bokchoykn]

If you're gonna complain about my post that said SCoB was destroyed, you should make sure to read it again where I updated the post a few times. In particular, they really need to add multiple tiers.

1. Storymode: echo+mechanics nerfs. no reward.
2. Normal: echo, no nerfs. 1 chest.
3. Hard: no echo, no nerfs. 2 chests like it is now.
4. Extreme: savage. either gear tokens or dyable or something else (extra sand/oil?).

This also preserves the encounters to allow for player growth. T5 was a wall for many players. T9 is going to be a mountain for those same players.

Interesting. I think I'd do it like this:

1. Story Mode: Echo + Nerfs. 1 Chest, Exploration + Clear Achievements.
2. Normal Mode: No Echo. 2 Chests, Exploration + Clear Achievements.
3. Savage Mode: i115 level sync! 2 Chests, Savage Achievement, Savage Title.

The key points is that lesser skilled players can still experience the content and get some gear. The original version is still there for latecomers to challenge and gives incentive to farm this version if you're able to do it. Also, on another note, I don't like the idea of people being able to out-gear SCoB Savage mode with i130 gear.

[The47thSen]

Isn't that the issue? The other kids can't play with the old ones. They're not there anymore. They were replaced with cheaper versions. Any opportunity to experience that tier of content in its original form is gone.

They were replaced with versions that are more on par with the skill levels of the intended target audience. While there may be the odd raider or two returning from a break hoping to catch up on the old stuff, there isn't enough of them around to keep them at that high of a difficulty. While I do agree the SCOB nerfs were a bit too much, it is still very much a necessity, especially when coupled together with the randomness that is content finder.

[bokchoykn]

They were replaced with versions that are more on par with the skill levels of the intended target audience. While there may be the odd raider or two returning from a break hoping to catch up on the old stuff, there isn't enough of them around to keep them at that high of a difficulty. While I do agree the SCOB nerfs were a bit too much, it is still very much a necessity, especially when coupled together with the randomness that is content finder.

I agree that a nerfed version should exist. I just don't think that a nerfed version and a regular version are mutually exclusive.

[Ratatapa]

I agree that a nerfed version should exist. I just don't think that a nerfed version and a regular version are mutually exclusive.

Technicly that'S what Savage and normal coil is

Savage is the real one, while Normal is the nerfed