Thread: Warrior Fantasy XIV: 1.0 Strikes Back [WAR/MRD 2.1 Update Thread]    

I think about half of those changes were enough to 'fix' the job. The rest... are just stacked on top of them.

Honestly, tying the healing bonus to defiance instead of wrath, and adding -PDT to Storm's Path was probably all it needed. Then they just kept going. I was a little worried that they would just make WAR into PLD and give them the same flavor, but I'm pleasantly surprised with how they kept the theme of the job.

I expect PLD to get Cure II this update and maybe some numbers adjustments as well. Really, all the jobs will get some balance changes, this is just the only one that's being significantly reworked.

Wow, warrior now takes almost as little skill as paladin.

No more managing wrath stacks removes almost all the fun out of playing the class. I knew they'd do this, first balance patch and already dumbing down classes for balance.

Also completely over the top changes, they changed too much in too little time. They may, actually, no, they HAVE overbuffed warrior now.

Very disappointed in WOW-like balance decisions where classes are dumbed down for the sake of balance. Also wow-like over the top changes where balance swaps heavily between classes every patch.

Originally Posted by Fojoop

Wow, warrior now takes almost as little skill as paladin.

No more managing wrath stacks removes almost all the fun out of playing the class. I knew they'd do this, first balance patch and already dumbing down classes for balance.

Very disappointed in WOW-like balance decisions where classes are dumbed down for the sake of balance.

Managing Wrath stacks was never "fun" for me. Killing the mob was fun, and coordinating with my team, of which I lead, was fun.

I'm hesitant to even respond to your post for fear that you're actively trolling with this "it was okay for War to be scorned because hey, I had fun through the scorn" logic. I'm also hesitant to believe that you honestly believed that a company that strove so diligently to craft their content around the fundamental WoW experience would not also attempt to balance their classes via. WoW, aka. the company who they have to thank for finally breaking a million subs.

I really, honestly feel like you're playing the wrong game here if every decision they make is met with derision on your part because of your distaste of WoW. I mean, wake up. They broke their XI-era subs by a country mile because they catered to a modern player = AKA. because they copied WoW as closely as they could in core design philosophy. They're going to listen to that cash far more than they're going to listen to you on this.

Why do you think I wanted WAR to be weak, or not buffed at all?

They could have buffed warrior without dumbing down the class. IB change and not having to manage your wrath intelligently ruined a lot of "skill" involved in playing the class. It's WOW-like balancing, dumbing it down and making it easier to buff it instead of buffing it without changing how much skill it takes. They essentially removed an entire mechanic - managing your wrath stacks properly, and changed it into a "combo points" system where you just use them whenever with zero thought about losing your healing recieved bonus.

Distaste of WOW? Nah, I love vanilla WOW and TBC. Two of my favorite MMO's, I dislike new WOW where everythings dumbed down. And if you want to throw random insults at me to prove a point, how about factual proof next time? Since WOW's "dumbing down" of classes, they have lost subs every quarter, they're bleeding subs now. Dumbing down classes is not gaining them money and is not successful, the current WOW is highly unsuccessful in retaining subs and is doing nothing but losing more and more players every content update. They lost 100k alone from this new content update. Keep your insane comments out of this, foaming at the mouth because I mentioned "WOW-like" balance in a sentence.

Not many people like classes being dumbed down to balance them and make them stronger, you can make classes stronger without dumbing them down. Removing an entire mechanic from warrior - that is managing your wrath stacks intelligently, was really not the way to go. War is essentially slightly harder than Paladin now, while before it was much more difficult. War is going to spam it's DPS rotation, use wrath stacks as soon as it gets them, and rotate CD's. Only thing harder is that it has "combo points" to use skills on now while rotation CD's, while paladin simply spams 123 and rotates CD's.

They should have buffed wrath's healing bonus to 20-25%, made warrior self over-healing give them a stacking HP bonus that lasts 10-20 seconds, and added damage reduction to Revenge to make it actually useful, so warriors also have a DR CD for magic damage. That's all it needed, buffing overpowers threat? Why? They have the best AOE threat in the game, removing wrath managing mechanics? Why? At the least they could've made some combo finisher make wraths healing bonus "linger" for 10 seconds after use so you'd use that then use inner beast for self healing, comboing to keep the healing buff. That would take more thinking and be more fun to do.

A lot of these changes are pretty much overkill, like the overpower change, and a ton of other things. Warriors weren't THIS weak.

Originally Posted by Spider-Dan

read: "it's OK if one of the tank jobs is clearly inferior, as long as it's not my tank job"

I hope you and other battered-wife WARs enjoy your time in the spotlight; everyone should have a turn. Just don't bring out your violins when the pendulum swings back, especially with this "These changes are totally measured and reasonable" act.

Lucavi and I already talked this over earlier -- Neither of us are "relishing" in the spotlight or what have you, we just feel justified in receiving decent updates. I can't speak for dude, but I won't be hating if the pendulum inevitability swings back; I enjoy the job regardless. I love swinging an axe to chop motherfuckers.

WAR wasn't an inferior job to begin with, it was just more upkeep for [good/great] healers, and I'm pretty sure everyone can agree on that. Now WAR is simply more in line with PLD in terms of hate keeping while healers can catch a break instead of panicking their shit 50% of the time.

Originally Posted by Fojoop

You could have buffed warrior without dumbing down the class.

Holding onto IB until you got your shit wrecked wasn't "complicated" play. If anything, it was easy play: hold IB until you get your shit pushed in, then release only if you have infuriate up or berserk + vengence on standby. Otherwise you're essentially costing your healers MP by having to burn more cures on you.

It was a decent idea, but poorly developed. You can claim that its "fun" as much as you want; poorly executed ideas need to be fixed. This is a form of a fix, certainly. Is it potentially overboard? Well, that's what they're currently testing, and we could test to if SE could be bothered to make a goddamn PTR server like other modern MMOs, but hey. All I see up there are proposed changes, not official patch notes. Calm the fuck down with your purist banter.

@Sho: I've long-since ignored him. Don't bother. He's going to keep needling until he gets a nice timeout from someone, and that'll be that.

To the point: I was sold on the job the minute I realized they were actually making a 2-handed Axe job that could hit things without hiding behind shadows like their old game. I switched from Drg to War in P3 and haven't looked back. I won't be looking back so long as War continues to use an axe. I'm pretty sure if my team could keep me alive up to this point (being absurdly geared through my own sweat), they could keep me up regardless of what changes and adjustments were made to the game. The question was always: should massive discrepancies exist in a game that claims to want to have a role for each specific job/class? If one Job/class completely triumps another job/class in every feasible application, the second job/class should cease to exist. Everyone knew a change was coming; the only question was when.

PLD is a simple job, but lets not kid ourselves. WAR wasn't much harder. Instead of rotating cooldowns, you'd just use IB after taking spike damage and then Infuriate right after. That's not really complicated.

Originally Posted by Carth

PLD is a simple job, but lets not kid ourselves. WAR wasn't much harder. Instead of rotating cooldowns, you'd just use IB after taking spike damage and then Infuriate right after. That's not really complicated.

Exactly. The most "complicated" thing was deciding whether or not to use butcher's block as your second combo ender if you were off-tanking, so as not to pull hate. This guy.

I've tanked everything in the game. Warrior is not complicated. It -IS- fun, sure, but the fun comes from cleaving the fucking shit out of enemies with a two-handed axe!

Holding onto IB until you got your shit wrecked wasn't "complicated" play. If anything, it was easy play: hold IB until you get your shit pushed in, then release only if you have infuriate up or berserk + vengence on standby. Otherwise you're essentially costing your healers MP by having to burn more cures on you.

According to my Warrior friend that isn't how you play warrior, though. I can't argue any further because he can't be arsed to tell me in full detail how it works but he never played like that and is telling me himself you're wrong.

I just didn't like your tone towards me, instantly so hostile throwing insults my way because I mentioned "Wow-like", was crazy.

Not trying to start an argument, sorry for offending you.

They really shouldn't make such huge sweeping class changes like this, Warrior might be over the top now, which isn't very fun for Paladins. Going from "This is the best tank" to "This is now the best tank" every content patch , or even swapping best DPS to best DPS every content patch isn't health for the game. WOW players absolutely despise this.

Originally Posted by Fojoop

According to my Warrior friend that isn't how you play warrior, though. I can't argue any further because he can't be arsed to tell me in full detail how it works but he never played like that and is telling me himself you're wrong.

I just didn't like your tone towards me, instantly so hostile throwing insults my way because I mentioned "Wow-like", was crazy.

Not trying to start an argument, sorry for offending you.

So, you don't even have War leveled, and you're talking shit about complicated and easy-mode? Am I reading this right?

Take as much time as you need to answer this. I just want to make sure I haven't misread something.

Originally Posted by Lucavi

So, you don't even have War leveled, and you're talking shit about complicated and easy-mode? Am I reading this right?

Take as much time as you need to answer this. I just want to make sure I haven't misread something.

Yes, this game isn't so overly complex I need to play a job to understand how it works.

Drop the attitude and have a civil discussion please.

Originally Posted by Carth

- Due to overall balance changes, HP absorbed by damage dealt will be reduced from 300% to 100%

;_;7 rip 6k burst heals. I don't like how WAR has been pushed in to the exact same boat as PLD now, preempting damage with buffs and debuffs to reduce hits rather than proactive healing via IB and the like. There's no doubt this is an overwhelming buff overall but imo they took the class in the wrong direction. It's definitely gonna be a bit less fun for me (though managing BB/SE/SP combos will add a tiny amount of depth) now. Also prepare your butts for garbage WARs spamming SE/SP and losing hate all day. These ex-PLDs are gonna get confused by having to press more than 123123123.

I'll trade the 6k burst heals for still getting 4.7k table flipped on Titan in 10/12 allagan while Plds with barebones AK gear take 900. I'll gladly trade that.

@Foj: You haven't even tanked on War and you're talking about easy-mode changes. Okay.

Also old IB was a healing increase 99% of the time, Fojoop is absolutely right and you are doing it wrong holding on to stacks so often.

Originally Posted by Kiarax

Also old IB was a healing increase 99% of the time, Fojoop is absolutely right and you are doing it wrong holding on to stacks so often.

We've been over this: its a healing increase, absolutely, but it absolutely doesn't make up for flat mitigation. You know this. The mitigation change was the only one I specifically asked for, aside from giving worth to our 3 shittiest abilities.

I'm not sure why they buffed enmity in the slightest. The class has never hurt for enmity.

Originally Posted by Lucavi

I'll trade the 6k burst heals for still getting 4.7k table flipped on Titan while Plds with barebones AK gear take 900. I'll gladly trade that.

I regularly see <1k MBs. If my gf is solo healing on SCH they're generally ~3k ish since no SS from WHM. Either way old IB negated more than 20% every single time.

Originally Posted by solipsism

Not really surprised that they're overbuffing the job. A lot of these changes are just unnecessary especially all the enmity buffs.

I agree with this, especially the enmity. When did someone ever say or think "Shit, I wish overpower had more enmity on it because warriors can't keep AOE hate"?