Thread: Warrior Fantasy XIV: 1.0 Strikes Back [WAR/MRD 2.1 Update Thread]    

Not sure why all the hostility in this thread. Most everyone seems to be agreeing that WAR could have used some tinkering and got that. If you can't agree to this much you're just stupid. They had abilities that were worthless. Not like Hallowed-Ground-too-fucking-slow worthless, just literally no reason to use in most any case.

Then SE went far beyond that. Most sane people here also recognize that. So then WAR will be in the lead for a while...and that's a big problem because? Who the fuck cares just play what you want.

I may have missed it but where is all the mockery for SE's "war is fine you're doing it wrong" and then the massive changes incoming here? I wish someone could ask them to revisit that sentiment.

There's definitely a bonus for Shield Oath. I can call that a fact since at one point I forgot Shield Oath during Turn 4 and couldn't hold hate worth a damn against the DPS during Phase 2. The Clockwork mobs obliterated everyone.

Originally Posted by Voyage1970

True enough, but if we're talking endgame scenario such as coil I doubt you'll be wasting Wrath Stacks on Unchained instead of IB for survival. Same with Berserk and Internal Release, I would assume you'd save them specifically for emergency IBs when you get low on HP rather than keep them off cooldown as it's not really an issue for either tank job to hold hate if they know what they are doing and the DDs use quelling strikes as necessary.

I MT Cad and BB -> SE combo (Vengeance in middle somewhere) then fully buff (including Unchained) for 2 BB combos. If I feel like trolling I'll save it for post split so our snake dies significantly faster and the PLD starts eating 8 stacks. ADS it doesn't line up so perfectly but I still find it worth using. Generally not at much risk at 0 stacks so I'll pop it just before provoke -> BB and then do x2 BB combo with buffs. Storm's Eye won't last for both but the trade off is worth it imo. We do west/west but I hear some tanks complain about enmity on the other (slash resist) route. Pushing DPS on your turns to tank can't hurt. Turn 4 I never unchained, I probably should but I get lazy, BB combos all day and I drop defiance when not tanking (IB x2 -> drop if I have stacks/infuriate).

Originally Posted by Raineer

Not sure why all the hostility in this thread. Most everyone seems to be agreeing that WAR could have used some tinkering and got that. If you can't agree to this much you're just stupid. They had abilities that were worthless. Not like Hallowed-Ground-too-fucking-slow worthless, just literally no reason to use in most any case.

Then SE went far beyond that. Most sane people here also recognize that. So then WAR will be in the lead for a while...and that's a big problem because? Who the fuck cares just play what you want.

I may have missed it but where is all the mockery for SE's "war is fine you're doing it wrong" and then the massive changes incoming here? I wish someone could ask them to revisit that sentiment.

^ Thanks for that. Even so it's ironic for people to hop to whatever is the "best" at the time I guess, but gamers will be gamers -- happens in every genre. Though, I do understand some people who also play to maximum effectiveness, like Jem mentioned earlier. The "war is fine you're doing it wrong" sentiment & mockery could definitely be thrown out there, however one could also see it in the same vein that they saw the evolution of NIN in FFXI -- SE wanted NIN to play a specific way, but the playerbase saw (and played) things differently, and in the end SE was forced to concede to the playerbase and further mold it's gameplay around it's "tanking" mechanics. With these changes you only see SE conceding much sooner, instead of furthering whatever mindset they were going to go with when it came to Defiance/Inner Beast/Huge HP Pool.

Originally Posted by Spider-Dan

With any luck, this is a trial balloon; Yoshi threw it out to get a reaction, and if it becomes clear that these changes are way over the top, he'll dial it back before 2.1 goes live.

Doubtful. They more than likely did buff the job this highly and wanted general feedback as they continue testing. Not every buff/nerf announcement has to be for a kneejerk reaction -- if they judged things this way solely, the game would be horribly unbalanced, as many causals would play up their jobs to the devs for their own interest.

You won't catch me using it when Cad/ADS are stacked up, but I don't generally feel like they pose that much of a threat unbuffed (definitely not too much for healer to manage at least). Worst case you pop Infuriate for it.

Originally Posted by Spider-Dan

With any luck, this is a trial balloon; Yoshi threw it out to get a reaction, and if it becomes clear that these changes are way over the top, he'll dial it back before 2.1 goes live.

More likely these changes are in addition to less drastic adjustments being done to PLD as well. We're seeing these changes without any context of what the new dungeons are or what balances are being done for PLD, WHM, or SCH. They could be power creeping all the jobs a notch while they add more content.

Originally Posted by cassiraa

More likely these changes are in addition to less drastic adjustments being done to PLD as well. We're seeing these changes without any context of what the new dungeons are or what balances are being done for PLD, WHM, or SCH. They could be power creeping all the jobs a notch while they add more content.

Huh? The new dungeons are easier than coil, 3 of them are going to be speed run like AK/WP for myths and CT is made for pugs and was nerfed to be easier for LFR. They also said nothing about buffing paladin, only Warrior.

The more I think about these changes (or IB in particular) the more I dislike it. It's actually a pretty significant nerf in anything pre-Titan and shoehorns WAR in to playing like a PLD. Preempting damage for a minor reduction rather than proactively mitigating stuff with a burst heal. Now when Ifrit incinerates me for 1.6k damage I can reduce it by 20% instead of healing back 75%-100%+ of it, yay? The fact of the matter is Yoshi was absolutely right when he said people were playing WAR wrong. For some reason misinformation spread out of control and the grand majority of WARs had no clue what they were doing. The simple shift of moving the healing potency to defiance would have been enough. Keeping it on wrath and adding some DR to IB (20% is too much) could have worked too, the DR offsets the healing loss and gives you two options. Not at full HP before an MB? Preheal and reduce the damage. At full HP? Wait it out and recover your HP. Instead they've pretty much butchered our signature class and tanking mechanic in an attempt to bring us in line with PLD. The other changes alone were enough to do that, they took the complete wrong direction with IB (and Wrath in general) over a billion other, better, options. I can't help but feel the class is going to get a lot less fun for me. Expanded combo options doesn't offset the loss of my classes identity. If I wanted to play like a PLD I'd have rolled PLD. Any WAR worth their salt can tell you we have no issue tanking anything as is, whilst I'm happy to see us get buffs I can't help but be upset at the direction they're taking the class.

Originally Posted by Kiarax

The more I think about these changes (or IB in particular) the more I dislike it. It's actually a pretty significant nerf in anything pre-Titan and shoehorns WAR in to playing like a PLD. Preempting damage for a minor reduction rather than proactively mitigating stuff with a burst heal. Now when Ifrit incinerates me for 1.6k damage I can reduce it by 20% instead of healing back 75%-100%+ of it, yay? The fact of the matter is Yoshi was absolutely right when he said people were playing WAR wrong. For some reason misinformation spread out of control and the grand majority of WARs had no clue what they were doing. The simple shift of moving the healing potency to defiance would have been enough. Keeping it on wrath and adding some DR to IB (20% is too much) could have worked too, the DR offsets the healing loss and gives you two options. Not at full HP before an MB? Preheal and reduce the damage. At full HP? Wait it out and recover your HP. Instead they've pretty much butchered our signature class and tanking mechanic in an attempt to bring us in line with PLD. The other changes alone were enough to do that, they took the complete wrong direction with IB (and Wrath in general) over a billion other, better, options. I can't help but feel the class is going to get a lot less fun for me. Expanded combo options doesn't offset the loss of my classes identity. If I wanted to play like a PLD I'd have rolled PLD. Any WAR worth their salt can tell you we have no issue tanking anything as is, whilst I'm happy to see us get buffs I can't help but be upset at the direction they're taking the class.

This is standard Blizzard balancing 101 though. Class homogenization and over the top extreme balance changes. Get used to it, because Yoshi seems to want to copy Blizzard in every way he possibly can. I expected this exact type of balancing and changes when he talked about adjusting classes, and it's what we got.

Warrior is now the best tank, and people will be saying "Why bring a paladin?" then paladin will get buffed, and we'll be saying "Why bring a warrior?" Back and fourth.

We'll be seeing a lot more of this Blizzard-like behavior in the future, sadly.

I feel like you're over-hyping the buffs until we can actually see them in practice.

However, over buffing is much better compared to the traditional japanese dev mentality of nerfing anything that's good into oblivion to fix the issue.

Posted a wall of mad about IB on OF. RIP in peace sweet prince.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Beast-changes
Yes I'm mad even though we're getting sweet buffs fuck you.

Seeing as how my WAR is only 40 (with Allagan Body/Darklight waiting at level 50), I could really use some context here. How is Inner Beast now better than 2.1 IB? I agree that not having much reason to hold Wrath Stacks now is the wrong move to make on SE's behalf, but hoarding your wrath stacks vs anything that matters wasn't any better.

Originally Posted by Carth

Seeing as how my WAR is only 40 (with Allagan Body/Darklight waiting at level 50), I could really use some context here. How is Inner Beast now better than 2.1 IB? I agree that not having much reason to hold Wrath Stacks now is the wrong move to make on SE's behalf, but hoarding your wrath stacks vs anything that matters wasn't any better.

Those who don't like the change don't want to see defensive mitigation on War, instead wanting SE to go all-in with the "reactive" style of healing after you get your shit pushed in instead of a "preventative" style of acting before you get your shit pushed in to ensure that you don't get your shit pushed in (this is how pld plays). Currently in-game, it doesn't actually work like that for reasons we've spent the better of 3 months documenting.

I'd like to see some solo War Twintania tanking (from start to finish, never swapping) and some X2 War full coil clears (even if the group is extremely geared) before I start taking their "SE is ruining the jerb!" comments seriously. The fact of the matter is that X2 Pld is the default for end-game content with Pld X War coming in second for highly geared groups (my group falls in this bracket). I'd like to see some War x War groups, even if they were all top of the line, simply to see exactly how much MP those healers are blowing through to keep everything humming along.

I don't understand the point of your post. I think warrior being buffed is nice, but they went over the top with buffs, making it better than Paladin in essentially every situation, and destroyed warrior's identity. Warrior is now Paladin +1 that uses a 2h Axe instead of Sword+Shield.

I think defiance giving 20% healing increase passively would've balanced warrior and paladin pretty well.

I wasn't referring to you at all, as I was referring to Wars who play War and disagree with the changes and not non-Wars who don't play War and disagree with the changes. Color me unsurprised that you don't understand the point of my post. You haven't tried to Main tank X2 Dreadnauts on War, and you haven't tried to main tank Twintania on War for an extensive amount of phases, especially the initial phases.

All Wars, to include myself, presumably disagree with some of the changes, but the degree to which we disagree varies wildly with what we each want to come out of the Job. You are irrellevant to the discussion, as far as I'm concerned, and its not a matter of being pedantic or uppercrust, its simply that you don't have the end-game experience to speak on the matter aside from tired, cliche statements about how WoW is the bane of all existence.

Don't presume to speak of the identity of War without first playing the job. At least tank HM Titan before you start talking about identity.