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Thread: PvP Threat Assesment     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #21
    Old Odin
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    Only 3 of those are lit up and have obviously WAR-ly names (Mythril Tempest / Thrill of War / Full Swing) and are on his hotbar. Granted we know nothing but if those are just class-specific actions and the rest are general/CCbreaks, point stands.

  2. #22
    New Spam Forum
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    Could just be the reason only those 3 are lit up is just because they are on the hot bar. You'll notice the other skills select, and at the bottom right is shows 10/10 PvP Actions. Maybe moving the other skills to the hot bar lights them up. Granted, when selecting additional actions from crossover classes, they are always lit up, it may just follow some other sort of restrictions. We'll find out soon enough!

  3. #23
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Sad to say, I think Deadgye is right.

    I'll try to see if I can find it (or pester Reinfarto), but I am pretty sure we will be only using the pvp abilities and nothing else.


    [edit] Well actually if this article is right then, yes, it'll be both:

    http://www.usgamer.net/articles/squa...vp-and-housing

    There will also be PvP specific skills such as abilities that let you recover immediately from debuffs such as sleep, bind and the like. New passive traits will also be added to help counter some of these status effects, and the intention is to add to these skills and traits over time as PvP expands into an upcoming "Front Lines" scenario at some point in the future.
    So I guess it's both.

  4. #24
    Old Odin
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    That really doesn't make any sense. I clearly see Tomahawk, Sacred Soil, Dragonfire Dive, Steel Cyclone, Holmgang, and probably others in the 2.1 Preview video (1:20 to 1:40)

    e: nevermind!

  5. #25
    Strider/Doom/Cyclops
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    I just hope that PvE and PvP have different stored hotbars.

    I don't want to have to rearrange my bar every time I switch from playing one or the other.

  6. #26
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    Don't know if it's been said before, but the whole /facetarget thing won't work imo when you can just run straight through someone to get behind them. There is no way to turn and you will LoS.
    Since it's a caster he won't be moving during the cast so he can't counter it either.

    You will simply have to create distance before you start casting.
    If someone is on top of you, sleep (swiftcast if you have to) Lethargy and create distance, actually use Aetherial Manipulation finally in a useful setting etc.

    If there was collision detection it'd make this a lot easier on casters, but there isn't.

    I also don't think that CC abilities will have their full durations in PVP.
    Going from most other games it's either half duration vs players or something, and even damage might be lowered by 60% etc.
    It's SE though.

  7. #27
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    I believe you can bind Face Target action (or make a macro for /facetarget) and simply spam that during casting, which does not count as moving.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Dan View Post
    I believe you can bind Face Target action (or make a macro for /facetarget) and simply spam that during casting, which does not count as moving.
    That's true, but I don't think it's possible to turn to someone while maintining 100% LoS when they run straight through you.
    Causes that's what I do in other MMOs. I just run through people to get behind them, not run around them as a melee.

    So even if you don't "move" I will still LoS you even if it's a split second.
    It's just a case of if the game registers it as such or not.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argantes View Post
    That's true, but I don't think it's possible to turn to someone while maintining 100% LoS when they run straight through you.
    Causes that's what I do in other MMOs. I just run through people to get behind them, not run around them as a melee.

    So even if you don't "move" I will still LoS you even if it's a split second.
    It's just a case of if the game registers it as such or not.
    It's the one time people will curse SE for fixing the horrific collision prevention of FFXI.

    What a terrible solution though, to have to spam /facetarget as melee run back and forth and back and forth through your position. They may just end up having to remove the LoS mechanic completely in PvP, which they'll do 3 patches later.

  10. #30
    IMPERIAL CONCUBINE OF ME
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    Just on general gut guessing, I'm going to say BRD and SMN are likely to be beasts out the gate. This is without knowing what skills and such we are all going to get.

  11. #31
    The Defense is ready, Your Honor
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    Brd, Sch, Smn dominance has been the consensus since launch, when speaking of PVP. Games with better control and mechanics than ARR have struggled to keep ranged attackers in check; we'll have to see how Yoshi handles it.

  12. #32
    Old Odin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argantes View Post
    Don't know if it's been said before, but the whole /facetarget thing won't work imo when you can just run straight through someone to get behind them. There is no way to turn and you will LoS.
    Since it's a caster he won't be moving during the cast so he can't counter it either.

    You will simply have to create distance before you start casting.
    If someone is on top of you, sleep (swiftcast if you have to) Lethargy and create distance, actually use Aetherial Manipulation finally in a useful setting etc.
    Half true, I'll be a bit more specific about casting mechanics from what I've experienced.

    Paladins out there I'm sure have had the dumb moment when they pop Halone on a moving target, hear/see the "swish swish swish" but then the last 2 hits never came out and you didn't actually do the move, oops never happened. Or any job, you know what I'm talking about.

    Spells work the same way, but there are instead 2 checks at the beginning and end of the cast. So if you're going to fuck with someone's LoS, you need to do it at like the first 10% (on their screen; on yours it probably won't even begin casting) or the last 10% (or find LoS-breaking terrain; pillars or walls). The middle ~80% it doesn't matter if your facing is off, spell won't immediately fizzle. /facetarget is mostly for that middle 80%. It's not gonna save every cast, admittedly.

  13. #33
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    Casters dealing with people running through or around them to interrupt their casts is nothing new in MMOs. You could mitigate this in other target based games like WoW and Rift by simply just turning with them, which is easily done if you didn't keyboard turn (I have no idea how controller players would fare here, probably not good). The problem is FFXIV's engine is awful for this for some reason. Try it out sometime with a friend: have him tag a mob and run it around in circles around you and try to cast on it - you will have to turn well ahead of time in the direction it's running towards in order to land the spell. Now imagine trying to do that against human players that will zigzag around you rather than travel in a straight line and you'll realize how bad it'll be to try to cast on someone that isn't locked down in CC.

  14. #34
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    ^ Been saying that since XI. I'm not sure what they have up their sleeve, but I hope they have SOMETHING.

  15. #35
    Mithra Ero-Sensei
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    Considering SE said for endgame content and PVP, they will make it to where "character positioning will be updated instantly" or whatever (a lot more then anywhere else normally, I can see key turning/controller turning people being screwed by fast moving target, as there will be near no leniency of "lag time" for you to hit someone >.>

    (I do love my 30-50ms to game servers)

    Randomly, all the caster classes have an instant which can still hurt (especially blm scythe if your unlucky to get a crit + the damage buff talent proc), so shouldn't be too bad...

  16. #36
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    Agreed (about the movement system, as I mentioned earlier)

    However, I feel I'll fare significantly better on my controller. It's no effort to be epilectic (1 thumb), on my keyboard it's 3 or 4 fingers and also the mouse, while trying to maintain a DPS rotation... is a bit hard for me and as a result I never fared too well in PvP on WoW. TERA I stood my own for sometime as I was on a controller (I was a Lancer [tank] but as it was a PvP server, if anyone tried to gank me it's some effort as I can fight back -- I recall I took down one person in the level 30 range who tried to jump me, and then suddenly he came back with 2 more guys and I got curb stomped lol)

  17. #37
    Mithra Ero-Sensei
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Stig View Post
    Agreed (about the movement system, as I mentioned earlier)

    However, I feel I'll fare significantly better on my controller. It's no effort to be epilectic (1 thumb), on my keyboard it's 3 or 4 fingers and also the mouse, while trying to maintain a DPS rotation... is a bit hard for me and as a result I never fared too well in PvP on WoW. TERA I stood my own for sometime as I was on a controller (I was a Lancer [tank] but as it was a PvP server, if anyone tried to gank me it's some effort as I can fight back -- I recall I took down one person in the level 30 range who tried to jump me, and then suddenly he came back with 2 more guys and I got curb stomped lol)
    Well, tanks in tera don't die easy, you can just soorta... turtle the damage with the shield considering it had basicallt a 180 degree "block" you can key turn turtle all you want every attack >.>
    Theirs no turtling in ffxiv, except that 10sec thing PLD has and whatever how long holomong thing is.

    Anyway, I'm a a bit curious on the pvp skills, most are probably in some way a CC type mechanic or gap closers. As I can see a mnk having one hell of a hard time catching up to and killing a blm sprinting all over the room spamming scythe. A mnk can sprint too, but no tp to do anything when in range (and blm can bind/sleep if you get close anyway waiting for your sprint to wear off)

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seravi Edalborez View Post
    Half true, I'll be a bit more specific about casting mechanics from what I've experienced.

    Paladins out there I'm sure have had the dumb moment when they pop Halone on a moving target, hear/see the "swish swish swish" but then the last 2 hits never came out and you didn't actually do the move, oops never happened. Or any job, you know what I'm talking about.

    Spells work the same way, but there are instead 2 checks at the beginning and end of the cast. So if you're going to fuck with someone's LoS, you need to do it at like the first 10% (on their screen; on yours it probably won't even begin casting) or the last 10% (or find LoS-breaking terrain; pillars or walls). The middle ~80% it doesn't matter if your facing is off, spell won't immediately fizzle. /facetarget is mostly for that middle 80%. It's not gonna save every cast, admittedly.
    I see what you're saying and it's true, but I'm the kind of asshole that never stops moving through you, I'll jump back and forth all the time since it doesn't bother melee abilities at all.
    Aslong as I can turn with right mouse button I can keep you in the center of my screen while jumping through you.
    Hell, this game even has an autoface on attack thingy that makes sure I don't even have to bother with turning my mouse but just keeping you centered so I have even less trouble keeping you centered.

    Ofcourse there ARE counters, like swiftcast sleep or Garuda's pushback + Miasma etc, but it's still weird that it's even possible.
    The fact that there is a delay works in the caster's favor though, I'd have to say. but seeing as I plan on playing SMN a lot in PVP aswell as Paladin I kinda hope they will fix that specific mechanic for pvp atleast.

  19. #39
    Old Odin
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    Well shit, guess I should have waited a few days. Gonna have to rework a good portion of the OP, given all the changes.

    The diminishing returns timer adjustment (60sec timer resets on last successful application) is a very good thing for PvP viability though, or at least for making sure Sleep alone isn't king.

    Edit: Updated OP. There is a possibility that facetarget will be "nerfed" so I'm gonna refrain from even guessing at cast performance until I get some hands-on time and some initial reports.

    When pressing the F key (face target), instead of instantly facing the target, characters will now track the target's movement with his/her head until a direction button is pressed.

  20. #40
    Old Odin
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    Preliminary assessment: FUCK BARDS

    50 cap is amusing since nobody is bringing morale gear yet. So everyone CAN die in like 10 seconds without healer attention.

    Can peek through the gates to try and guess what opposing team is. Summons and AF2 are obvious giveaways.