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Thread: PvP Threat Assesment     submit to reddit submit to twitter

  1. #1
    Old Odin
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    PvP Threat Assesment

    Dec 15th edit/overhaul: Removing a lot of fluff and covering stuff in 2.1 patch notes that is relevant to OP. Adding sort of table of contents. Removed most mentions of Class over Job because they're kind of stupid, unless anyone really feels the Class is better.

    -----

    Getting Started

    Be at least level 30 in a DoW/DoM, go to your Grand Company, do the "A Pup No Longer (YourGC)" quest. The Wolves' Den can be accessed via the the ferry at Moraby Drydocks (X:32, Y:16) in Lower La Noscea (Aetheryte note: Moraby Drydocks). After this you can (presumably) queue up for PvP from anywhere like any regular Duty Finder thing.

    PvP parties must be in groups of 4 that adhere to the regular 4man composition: 1 Tank, 1 Healer, 2 DPS. Matches come in 30 cap, 40 cap, 50 cap, and 50 cap (premades vs premades). If you queue for the 50 non-premade it must be solo or in an incomplete party. For level 50 matches, premades will fight premades, DF'd will fight DF'd.

    The following battle mechanics have been changed specifically for PvP:
    -Casting will always be interuppted upon receiving direct damage.
    -Damage dealt by bows will vary depending on distance from the target.

    In additional to normal actions, players can also learn PvP-exclusive actions and traits. These actions and traits can be purchased with Action Points (AP), which are earned by fighting in PvP battles.

    Fighting in PvP will garner players a special type of currency known as Wolf Marks, which can be exchanged for gear and materia that are tuned for PvP. The amount awarded is commensurate to performance.

    Morale
    All gear obtained from the Wolves' Den will include a PvP-exclusive attribute known as morale. Morale comes into play only in level 50 matches, where it replaces physical and magical defense in influencing the damage you receive. Furthermore, morale also affects the amount of damage dealt to other players. (in other words, it's basically "PvP Defense" and "PvP Determination" in one)
    PvP Actions

    As you gain AP, you can spend points to unlock "Enhanced" traits for your PvP actions. Your level of "Enhanced"-ness is indicated by the number of diamonds next to the skill. As 2.1 hits I'll aim to fill in the base values that the patch notes aren't saying (base recast, range, etc). You can have a max of 10 PvP actions set at one time (not that it seems to matter; no one job can use that many at once).

    If you want to reset your PvP Action expenditure, you will need to (by some unknown means at time of writing) get an item called The Fury's Anthem, presumably purchased with either GC Seals or Wolf Marks. Also be advised that PvP progress is tied to GC alliegence; by changing Grand Company allegiance, PvP actions obtained as a member of your former Grand Company will no longer be recognized.

    Testudo: Reduces damage taken by target party member by 30%.Duration: 8s
    Cannot be cast on self.
    Enhanced Testudo: Shortens recast time to 180 seconds.
    Enhanced Testudo II: Extends duration to 16 seconds.
    Enhanced Testudo II: Increases damage reduction to 50%.
    -Paladin

    Glory Slash: Delivers an attack with a potency of 140 to all enemies in a cone before you.Additional Effect: Removes one beneficial status from target
    Enhanced Glory Slash: Shortens recast time to 180 seconds.
    Enhanced Glory Slash: Increases potency to 200.
    -Paladin

    Mythril Tempest: Delivers an attack with a potency of 140 to all nearby enemies.Additional Effect: 10-yalm knockback and Stun Duration: 2s
    Enhanced Mythril Tempest: Shortens recast time to 150 seconds.
    Enhanced Mythril Tempest II: Increases potency to 200.
    Enhanced Mythril Tempest III: Increases duration to 4 seconds.
    -Warrior

    Thrill of War: Increases maximum HP of self and nearby party members by 15% and restores HP by 15%.
    Duration: 15s
    Enhanced Thrill of War: Shortens recast time to 180 seconds.
    Enhanced Thrill of War II: Extends duration to 25 seconds.
    Enhanced Thrill of War III: Increases HP increase and restoration to 25%.
    -Warrior

    Full Swing: Delivers an attack with a potency of 150.
    Additional Effect: Damage over timePotency: 30 Duration: 15s
    Additional Effect: Increases target's damage taken by 10% Duration: 15s
    Enhanced Full Swing: Shortens recast time to 180 seconds.
    Enhanced Full Swing II: Increases duration to 25 seconds.
    Enhanced Full Swing III: Increases HP increase and restoration to 25%.
    -Paladin / Warrior

    Axe Kick: Delivers an attack with a potency of 160 to all nearby enemies.
    Additional Effect: Pacification Duration: 5s
    Additional Effect: Grants Greased Lightning III Duration: 12s
    Enhanced Axe Kick: Shortens recast time to 180 seconds.
    Enhanced Axe Kick II: Increases potency to 240.
    Enhanced Axe Kick III: Increases duration to 9 seconds.
    -Monk

    Somersault: Delivers an attack with a potency of 160.
    Additional Effect: Decreases spell speed of target by 30% Duration: 10s
    Enhanced Somersault: Shortens recast time to 180 seconds.
    Enhanced Somersault II: Extends duration to 20 seconds.
    Enhanced Somersault III: Increases spell speed reduction to 50%.
    -Monk

    Fetter Ward: Grants immunity to stun, sleep, bind, heavy, and disease.
    Duration: 5s
    Enhanced Fetter Ward: Shortens recast time to 120 seconds.
    Enhanced Fetter Ward II: Extends duration to 10 seconds.
    -Monk / Dragoon

    Impulse Rush: Delivers an attack with a potency of 200.
    Additional Effect: Reduces weaponskill TP cost by 30% and waives directional requirements in combos Duration: 10s
    Enhanced Impulse Rush: Shortens recast time to 180 seconds.
    Enhanced Impulse Rush II: Extends duration to 20 seconds.
    Enhanced Impulse Rush III: Increases TP reduction to 50%.
    -Dragoon

    Skewer: Delivers an attack with a potency of 180.
    Additional Effect: Reduces target's INT by 20% Duration: 10s
    Enhanced Skewer: Shortens recast time to 150 seconds.
    Enhanced Skewer II: Extends duration to 20 seconds.
    Enhanced Skewer III: Increases INT reduction to 40%.
    -Dragoon

    Manasong:
    Restores 25% of maximum MP for all nearby party members.
    Enhanced Manasong: Shortens recast time to 180 seconds.
    Enhanced Manasong II: Increases MP recovery to 40%.
    -Bard

    Farshot: Delivers a ranged attack with a potency of 140. Potency is not affected by distance.
    Additional Effect: Attack delivered with critical hit rate increased by 15%
    Enhanced Farshot: Shortens recast time to 120 seconds.
    Enhanced Farshot II: Increases potency to 190.
    Enhanced Farshot III: Increases criticial hit rate by an additional 10%.
    -Bard

    Blast Shot: Delivers an attack with a potency of 150 to target and enemies near it.
    Additional Effect: 10-yalm knockback to target
    Enhanced Blast Shot: Shortens recast time to 180 seconds.
    Enhanced Blast Shot II: Increases potency to 200.
    Enhanced Blast Shot III: Increases knockback distance to 15 yalms.
    -Bard

    Sacred Prism: Envelops a designated area in a veil of succor, healing any who enter and nullifying 40% of physical damage.Cure Potency: 50 Duration: 18s
    Enhanced Sacred Prism: Shortens recast time to 180 seconds.
    Enhanced Sacred Prism II: Extends duration to 30 seconds.
    Enhanced Sacred Prism III: Increases cure potency to 100.
    -White Mage

    Divine Breath: Resurrects target at 10% of maximum HP/MP/TP.
    Enhanced Divine Breath: Shortens recast time to 180 seconds.
    Enhanced Divine Breath II: Increases HP/MP/TP recovered to 50%.
    -White Mage

    Night Wing: Puts target and enemies near it to sleep.Duration: 10s
    Enhanced Night Wing: Shortens recast time to 180 seconds.
    Enhanced Night Wing II: Extends duration to 20 seconds.
    -Black Mage

    Phantom Dart: Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 120.
    Additional Effect: Reduces target's elemental resistances by 10% Duration: 15s
    Enhanced Phantom Dart: Shortens recast time to 180 seconds.
    Enhanced Phantom Dart II: Increases potency to 180.
    Enhanced Phantom Dart III: Extends duration to 30 seconds.
    -Black Mage

    Misty Veil: Reduces target's range by 10%. Range cannot be reduced to less than 3 yalms.
    Duration: 15s
    Enhanced Misty Veil: Shortens recast time to 180 seconds.
    Enhanced Misty Veil II: Extends duration to 25 seconds.
    Enhanced Misty Veil III: Increases range reduction to 30%.
    -Summoner

    Wither: Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 170 to all enemies in a cone before you.
    Additional Effect: Removes one beneficial status from target
    Enhanced Wither: Shortens recast time to 180 seconds.
    -Summoner

    Aura Blast: Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 150 to all nearby enemies.
    Additional Effect: 10-yalm knockback to target
    Enhanced Aura Blast: Shortens recast time to 180 seconds.
    Enhanced Aura Blast II: Increases potency to 200.
    Enhanced Aura Blast III: Increases knockback distance to 15 yalms.
    -Scholar

    Focalization: Increases nearby party members' elemental resistances by 15%.
    Duration: 15s
    Enhanced Focalization: Shortens recast time to 180 seconds.
    Enhanced Focalization II: Extends duration to 25 seconds.
    Enhanced Focalization III: Increases resistances to 25%.
    -Scholar

    Weapon Throw: Delivers a ranged attack with a potency of 50.
    Additional Effect:20% chance of inflicting Heavy when dealt from behind Duration: 6s
    Additional Effect:Removes Sprint effect when dealt from behind
    Enhanced Weapon Throw: Shortens recast time to 60 seconds.
    Enhanced Weapon Throw II: Extends duration to 12 seconds.
    Enhanced Weapon Throw III: Increases effect potency to 40%.
    -Monk / Dragoon

    Enliven: Instantly restores 50% TP.
    Enhanced Enliven: Shortens recast time to 180 seconds.
    Enhanced Enliven II: Increases TP recovery to 75%.
    -Paladin / Monk / Dragoon

    Aetheric Burst: Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 170 to all nearby enemies.
    Additional Effect: Decreases skill speed of target by 30% Duration: 10s
    Enhanced Aetheric Burst: Shortens recast time to 180 seconds.
    Enhanced Aetheric Burst II: Extends duration to 20 seconds.
    Enhanced Aetheric Burst III: Increases skill speed reduction to 50%.
    -White Mage / Black Mage / Summoner / Scholar

    Equanimity: Allows casting without interruption by attacks.
    Duration: 10s
    Enhanced Equanimity: Shortens recast time to 300 seconds.
    Enhanced Equanimity II: Extends duration to 20 seconds.
    -White Mage / Black Mage / Summoner / Scholar

    Mana Draw: Restores 30% of maximum MP.
    Enhanced Mana Draw: Shortens recast time to 180 seconds.
    Enhanced Mana Draw II: Increases MP recovery to 50%.
    -Bard / White Mage / Black Mage / Summoner / Scholar

    Purify: Removes all detrimental effects. Can be used regardless of status affliction.
    Enhanced Purify: Shortens recast time to 150 seconds.
    - All Classes

    Attunement: Greatly enhances evasion while nullifying 90% of damage. Cannot move or act while in effect.
    Duration: 10s
    Enhanced Attunement: Shortens recast time to 180 seconds.
    -White Mage / Scholar

    Enhanced [Attribute] (PvP): First rank gives +4, 2nd gives (an additional?) +8, 3rd gives (additional?) +13

    Universal System Mechanic Changes
    Or at least, the ones you might not remember 2.1 is changing as you go into it.

    -The period of immobility upon being revived has been reduced, and characters are granted temporary invulnerability.

    -Status affliction resistances will now begin counting after the last corresponding status affliction is received. (Mentioned below in Diminishing Returns)

    -Damage-over-time actions that target the ground such as Flaming Arrow and Shadow Flare will now break sleep and bind effects.

    -Players will now receive the additional effects of other players' actions even if damage is completely nullified by statuses such as Stoneskin and Adloquium.

    -Players will no longer lose the effects of food items upon being incapacitated.
    Debuffs (Diminishing Returns)

    The following debuffs are considered CC, in that they follow the "diminishing returns timer" rules:
    Stun
    Sleep
    Bind
    Heavy
    Paralysis
    Disease
    Blind
    Slow
    Pacification

    1st application: Full duration
    2nd application: 1/2 duration (rounded down)
    3rd application: 1/4 duration (rounded down)
    4th+ until timer expires: resisted

    The resist timer is 1 minute from the last SUCCESSFUL application of the debuff. Examples with Sleep
    A) First cast lasts 30 seconds, user waits an additional 30 seconds before reapplying, next application is 30s again.
    B) First cast 30s, after it wears user does another (15s), then another (7s). 60 seconds after the 7s duration lands, the resist timer resets.

    Generally you cannot overwrite your own CC debuff "early" (Ruin II blind > another Ruin II doesn't reapply until it wears off), but it seems like if it's done from a different source it will overwrite (Flash > Ruin II, Ruin II's blind will take over).

    For another example, let's say a MNK instead starts the Stun resist clock with Shoulder Tackle (2s stun), and PLD does 2 more Shield Bashes. The stun time for this will go
    2s > 3s > 1s. CC time is a minimum of 1 second as long as you're not at "full resist" yet.

    Silence is not considered a CC debuff; this is presumably "balanced" by the duration being short (so only good for stunning long casts or prediction) and nobody being able to spam it all by themselves (at least 25s cooldown for everyone except PGL/MNK, who can only access theirs at a high TP cost in one particular stance).

    Each CC has it's own debuff timer. Some notes:
    -Bind overwrites Heavy; applying a damaging Heavy effect (Stone 1 for example) will break Bind and not apply Heavy.
    -Heavy and Disease's "heavy" effect should stack (needs verification but pretty sure)
    -Slept targets will continue to take DoT damage without waking up, and actions that do not inflict damage or apply a DoT will not wake them early. Unlike FFXI, slept targets can only be woken by the above measure or Esuna/Leeches.
    -Cannot rotate character/facing while bound (unless you are the user of Holmgang)
    -Currently there is are no player skills that apply Paralysis except potions, which (HQ) have 1m48s cooldown. Unknown if consumables will be allowed in PvP at this time.
    -Holmgang does not share Bind's CC clock; entirely separate debuff. Needs confirmation on if Holmgang itself has a CC timer.

    Esuna / Leeches

    Because these are limited to 1 debuff cured per application, it can be beneficial to "mask" a debuff by applying more, regardless of whether the effect is desired (IE, put Virus, Bio, and Bio 2 on a person with Disease or Heavy already). This kind of falls apart a little if Esuna/Leeches have a priority system for removing debuffs, but number of debuffs each class can apply is taken into account in the mini-breakdowns that follow.

    Remember that DoTs and HoTs can be applied once per person, but most other debuffs can only have 1 copy of the effect up at a time. So with 4 Summoners, you can have 4 counts of Bio/2/Miasma, but only 1 Disease, Virus, Slow etc.

    -----

    Paladin

    CC debuffs:
    Flash (Blind, instant cast 5y radius around self, duration: 12s>6s>3s)
    Shield Bash (Stun, duration 6s>3s>1s)
    Shield Swipe (Pacification, requires a block, 6>3>1)

    Other debuffs:
    Rage of Halone (10% STR Down, combo, 20s duration)
    Circle of Scorn (15s DoT in 5y radius around self, 25s CD)

    CC mitigation:
    Tempered Will (cures Bind+Heavy, immune to knockback for 10 seconds, 3min CD)
    Hallowed Ground (complete[?] invincibility for 10 seconds, 7min CD)

    PvP Actions:
    -Testudo
    -Glory Slash
    -Full Swing
    -Enliven
    -Purify

    Monk

    (For those unfamiliar with MNK, stances go Opo-opo > Raptor > Coeurl > repeat. Can use Opo freely but they don't get a combo bonus unless done in Coeurl. Not a "true" combo in the same vein as DRG/PLD/WAR, so a non-stance related GCD can come between stances. Coeurl moves grant 1 stack of Greased Lightning, up to 3 [+damage and +skill speed])

    CC debuffs:
    Haymaker (Slow 20%, requires an evade, 12>6>3)
    Steel Peak (Stun, 40s CD, 4>2>1)
    Shoulder Tackle (Stun + gap closer, 30s CD, 2>1>1?, cannot be used while Bind)
    One Ilm Punch (Dispel 1 beneficial effect, raptor stance)

    Other debuffs:
    Touch of Death (DoT, 30s)
    Demolish (DoT, 18s, coeurl stance)
    Dragon Kick (reduced Blunt Resistance and INT, 15s, opo-opo stance)

    CC mitigation:
    None

    PvP Actions:
    -Axe Kick
    -Somersault
    -Fetter Ward
    -Weapon Throw
    -Enliven
    -Purify

    Warrior

    CC debuffs:
    Brutal Swing (Stun, 30s CD, 5>2>1)

    Other debuffs:
    Fracture (DoT, 30s)
    Holmgang (special Bind on self and target within a short distance, 3min CD, 6s, User cannot fall below 1 HP for duration)
    Storm's Path (reduces target's damage dealt by 10% for ?? seconds, combo)
    Storm's Eye (target's HP recovery halved for 15 seconds, combo)

    CC mitigation:
    None

    PvP Actions:
    -Mythril Tempest
    -Thrill of War
    -Full Swing
    -Purify

    Dragoon

    CC debuffs:
    Feint (Slow 20%, 20>10>5)
    Leg Sweep (Stun, 20s CD, 3>2>1)
    Spineshatter Dive (Stun, 90s CD, 2>1>1?)

    Other debuffs:
    Phlebotomize (DoT, 18s)
    Disembowl (reduces Piercing resistance, 30s, 2nd step of combo with rear opener)
    Chaos Thrust (DoT, 30s, 3rd step of above combo)

    CC mitigation:
    Elusive Jump (cures Bind+Heavy, 3min CD)

    PvP Actions:
    -Fetter Ward
    -Impulse Rush
    -Skewer
    -Weapon Throw
    -Enliven
    -Purify

    Bard

    CC debuffs:
    Shadowbind (Bind, 40s CD, 10>5>2)

    Other debuffs:
    Venomous Bite (DoT, 18s, crit ticks reset Bloodletter [150 potency off-GCD])
    Windbite (DoT, 18s, see above)
    Rain of Death (Reduces targets' evasion by 10%, 8y radius around target, 20s)

    CC mitigation:
    None

    PvP Actions:
    -Manasong
    -Farshot
    -Blast Shot
    -Mana Draw
    -Purify

    White Mage

    CC debuffs:
    Stone (Heavy 40%, 20>10>5)
    Fluid Aura (Knockback+Bind, 30s CD, 6>3>1)
    Repose (Sleep, 30>15>7)
    Holy (Stun, long cast time, 4>2>1)
    Blizzard II (Bind, 5y radius around self, 8>4>2); cross from THM

    Other debuffs:
    Aero (DoT, 18s, instant cast)
    Aero II (DoT, 12s)

    CC mitigation:
    Esuna (removes 1 [latest?] debuff from 1 person, very quick cast)

    PvP Actions:
    -Sacred Prism
    -Divine Breath
    -Aetheric Burst
    -Equanimity
    -Mana Draw
    -Purify
    -Attunement

    Black Mage

    CC debuffs:
    Blizzard (Heavy 40%, 20>10>5)
    Sleep (...Sleep, 5y radius, 30>15>7)
    Blizzard II (Bind, 5y radius around self, 8>4>2)
    Lethargy (Slow+Heavy20%, 30s CD, 12>6>3)
    Freeze (Bind, 5y radius free-place circle, 15>7>3)

    Other debuffs:
    Thunder / II / III (DoT, Thundercloud proc chance, 18s/21s/24s)

    CC mitigation:
    Manaward (Magic damage up to 30% max HP nullified)
    Manawall (Nullifies next 2 physical hits)

    PvP Actions:
    -Night Wing
    -Phantom Dart
    -Aetheric Burst
    -Equanimity
    -Mana Draw
    -Purify

    Summoner

    CC debuffs:
    Miasma (Disease, 24>12>6)
    Ruin II (Blind, instant cast, 10>5>2)
    Miasma II (Disease, instant cast, 15>7>3)
    Shadow Flare (Slow 5%, 30s duration, don't stand in the blue fire idiot)
    Tri-disaster (Bind, 5y radius, 20>10>5)
    Titan/Garuda (Stun, 40s CD, 2>1>1?)
    Garuda (Pet knockback, 90s CD)
    Blizzard II (Bind, 5y radius around self, 8>4>2); cross from THM

    Other debuffs:
    Bio (DoT, 18s, instant cast)
    Miasma (DoT, 24s, also applies Disease)
    Bio II (DoT, 30s)
    Miasma II (DoT, 15s, also applies Disease)
    Inferno (Ifrit, DoT, 15s, 5min recast)

    CC mitigation:
    Rouse (Pet is immune to most CCs for 20s, 60s CD)

    PvP Actions:
    -Misty Veil
    -Wither
    -Aetheric Burst
    -Equanimity
    -Mana Draw
    -Purify

    Scholar

    CC debuffs:
    Miasma (Disease, 24>12>6)
    Ruin II (Blind, instant cast, 10>5>2)
    Miasma II (Disease, instant cast, 15>7>3)
    Shadow Flare (Slow 5%, 30s duration, don't stand in the blue fire idiot)

    Other debuffs:
    Bio (DoT, 18s, instant cast)
    Miasma (DoT, 24s, also applies Disease)
    Bio II (DoT, 30s)
    Miasma II (DoT, 15s, also applies Disease)

    CC mitigation:
    Leeches (removes 1 [latest?] debuff from 1 person, very quick cast)
    Rouse (Pet is immune to most CCs for 20s, 60s CD)

    PvP Actions:
    -Aura Blast
    -Focalization
    -Aetheric Burst
    -Equanimity
    -Mana Draw
    -Purify
    -Attunement

    -----

    2.1 Patch Notes: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...7af43f3c43828a

  2. #2
    Hyperion Cross
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    As much as it was interesting to read, as it stands, I feel BRD in a 1v1 situation will melt anything before anyone can get close; vs itself it will see who's got better gear and/or support. MNK might be an exception due to its Shoulder Tackle, but a BRD can do that back jump and/or bind and continue to pewpew. The damage/defense mechanics will reveal more later, but until otherwise proven I don't think your own abilities will

    If you want a good feel of it, get a free2play WoW account (level cap 20) and you can go die vs hunters (archer/pet job) all day lol

    EDIT: Yeh my opinion is a overall high level view of the whole thing, but many meta mechanics will come into play and affect things overall I suppose

  3. #3
    Old Odin
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    I don't disagree. I can't really think of an explicitly bad thing about BRD beyond silly things like "doesn't have its own Heavy/Sleep/whatever".

  4. #4
    Physicist
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    As a career tank/healer I'm just learning using your post to learn about DPS jobs I'll never bother to level.

    i.e. "so that's wtf phlebotomize is"

    I agree with Stiggy. Ranged and stealth are crutches in every single PvP environment I've seen. BLMs have to stop moving to cast and BRDs don't, so the BRD wins the ranged battle.

    Can't wait for stealth to be added. That'll be right after night elves invade the game.

  5. #5
    Yoshi P
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    In regards to the current theorycrafting about specific moves, you do know that pvp abilities are separate right?

  6. #6
    Old Odin
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    I'm under the impression we will have all current abilities in addition to whatever we get from PvP-only. So working with what we know now.

    If our PvP repertoire is literally just the PvP abilities then this is totally pointless, considering from that one screenshot a WAR would only have 3 abilities.

  7. #7
    Hyperion Cross
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    If the abilities are indeed separate, I prefer that gear would be separate too. In effect, everyone is equal, all the time; your gear will determine how much of a pro you are in looks, not stats. The rest is purely based on skills/team work/co-ordination.

    Though this might make people lose interest ... but in effect you'll be playing an online game like a FPS/street fighter. Good idea or not, I'm not sure as it defeats the purpose of a MMORPG... but if PvP is going to be in designated areas rather than open world I see little harm in that.

    EDIT: About the "everyone is equal" thing, given enough time everyone will be equal anyways gear wise. Otherwise it just lets players dominate others temporarily until they catch up; though this is also one reason people pvp. It's a natural high to steam roll people afterall.

  8. #8
    CustomTitle
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    HOT LITTLE SNATCH

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    I am pumped to Holmgang and 2x Inner Beast squishy people in full AF on day 1. As far as WAR vs MRD goes it is no contest, WAR has significantly more eHP and burst damage on top of Holmgang (which admittedly has a huge CD, but with 5 stacks and Infuriate available it'll let you easily dump 2k damage on people in seconds).

  9. #9
    They're coming to take me away. Ha Ha!
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    At a glance, it looks like the ideal PVP 4-man group will be the same as an ideal WP Speed run group. PLD, WHM, BLM, BRD. You get the best survivability, the best CC, and a great combination of safe and high damage, both burst and sustained. The peeling and kiting potential are obscene, which will make the life of a Melee DPS a straight nightmare, and trying to focus any member of that team will leave at least 2 large threats unattended, while not focusing your damage will simply not kill anything because they're all durable enough, with support, to withstand enough punishment for the PLD to come peel for them.

    Melees in XIV PVP are going to have the same problem as Melee Carries in LoL, which is getting kited to death. Both of them have gap closers, but neither of them have a whole lot of burst to overtake healing, or to kill a healer before they get help.

    Summoners are probably going to have problems due to not having enough burst damage, which means they can simply be healed out. They also have very few defensive options once something is set on killing them. They have really good harass, but in a system with a dedicated healer, it's hard to make damage stick unless you kill your target.

    Won't know what a WAR can do until after the changes go live, so I can't speculate very much... but what comes immediately to mind is that if they nail someone to the ground with Holmgang, then that person is probably fucked, and there isn't much you can do about it except counter-attack.

    Disclaimer: Everything I said above might be completely wrong, or extremely obvious. Most of my PVP experience is from LoL, and may or may not apply to MMO PVP.

  10. #10
    Relic Shield
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    I have no idea what kind of new abilities the classes/jobs will be getting for PvP, but I do know this game's combat system is going to be horrible for PvP purposes especially for melee if they still have to flank etc for their attack bonuses. I saw pillars in that preview video so you can be sure LoS is going to be abused. Who knows though, might be fun for a week or two.

    Composition wise, placing my bets on SCH + WHM + BLM + BRD. SCH disease is a snare and they will most likely retain their exceptional single target burst healing and can swap to offensive just as easily when you need to pressure. WHM brings the only spammable HoT in the game and has access to swiftcast + Holy (peel) and Repose (peel + potential to set up coordinated burst for BLM). BRD is a no brainer with their on the move damage and utility songs. Shadowbind is also an effective peel. BLM: raw stationary turret damage, AoE CC, spamming Scathe while kiting does a surprising amount of damage that quickly adds up. Running SCH + WHM also brings double dispels, which is going to be useful as I assume people trying to CC to coordinate burst will try to load up their target with garbage debuffs (remember Detect Magic in early WoW Arena?) to prevent key spells from being dispelled quickly.

    Maybe they'll surprise us with melee actually being good in PvP, but I doubt it. Ever try to hit a moving target in PvE as melee? It's a goddamned nightmare.

  11. #11
    Hyperion Cross
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    Maybe they'll surprise us with melee actually being good in PvP, but I doubt it. Ever try to hit a moving target in PvE as melee? It's a goddamned nightmare.
    Not only that, in WoW (though response times/smoothness is significantly better in that game) melees zigzag like they are epileptic; it just looks stupid. Given how sometimes in this game other players on your client seemingly moonwalk around a mob, I fear it will just look plain stupid if people try to replicate such behaviour. I understand it's to make yourself hard to hit, but if anyone here even tried to hit a moving mob, it's quite difficult to unless you were running ahead by a tiny bit.

    2 examples i can think of is Brayflox second boss, when the lizard chases the goblin for a while, and in WP, when the second boss chases someone randomly.

  12. #12
    Physicist
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    In addition to trying to hit running people with melee, if you can get close to a caster targeting you it should be simple to LoS almost everything they do. Wait until 80% done on the cast and run through the BLM, or just run in circles.

    PvP just seems like it's going to be incredibly frustrating all around.

  13. #13
    Old Odin
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    BLM is going to be a very hit or miss role; they have a ton of CC options and great potential burst, but if their team is shit (not coordinating sleeps/priority targets, not standing way the fuck away from an awake target, not in foreseeable LoS, said target has no heavy/disease on it) and their opposing team is NOT shit then life will be miserable just because, yeah, /facetarget can't always save your cast.

    In a setting where sleep underwent no changes from the current system, I imagine "4 SCH" or '3 SCH + 1 (something)" or "2 SCH + 1 WHM + 1 (something)" can be a solid team for premade vs premade. If even one person is awake, they can Leeches someone asleep. Opposing team would have to be 4 sleepers doing simultaneous Swiftcast sleeps to put you on lockdown; a performance they would have to repeat every minute. SCH can very easily throw up a lot of garbage debuffs, kite while they're doing so, and in a 4 SCH setting you could have 4 regens going up either at once or staggered. Lacking sleep is rough but I'm putting my chips in for Disease being an underrated threat. The old XI RDM standby of "annoy you to death".

  14. #14
    Hydra
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    spineshatter/dragonfire dive and shoulder tackle are all classified as gap closers, and hence would be really important save for their retarded long cooldowns. I really hope there's a way to lower those CDs for PvP, because melee without an on demand gap closer is in trouble.

    edit: as far as positional combos for DRG/MNK, its going to be a question of saving stuns for CC, or leveraging them to get flank/rear combos in for bigger damage on opponents who know how to circle strafe. (or, anyone, given how trying to hit a moving target works now)

  15. #15
    The Defense is ready, Your Honor
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Stig View Post
    If the abilities are indeed separate, I prefer that gear would be separate too. In effect, everyone is equal, all the time; your gear will determine how much of a pro you are in looks, not stats. The rest is purely based on skills/team work/co-ordination.

    Though this might make people lose interest ... but in effect you'll be playing an online game like a FPS/street fighter. Good idea or not, I'm not sure as it defeats the purpose of a MMORPG... but if PvP is going to be in designated areas rather than open world I see little harm in that.

    EDIT: About the "everyone is equal" thing, given enough time everyone will be equal anyways gear wise. Otherwise it just lets players dominate others temporarily until they catch up; though this is also one reason people pvp. It's a natural high to steam roll people afterall.
    How would you suggest "starter gear" for PVP, then? Some kind of full set you get when doing the inital quest?

    Semi-related: if more melee classes don't get some sort of gap-closing "stick" ability, you're going to see a shit-ton of stupid kiting and tomahawk/shield/spear lobs all day. We don't have to wait too long to find out, though.

  16. #16
    Hyperion Cross
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    Ah, there will be no starter gear, you go in whatever you're wearing... maybe with the stats stripped out or something? However, there is that PvP stat currently in game (I don't recall what it's called), in retrospect, it looks like there'll be gear relating to that.

    Anyways, there are many holes and uncertainties here. 1 is the imbalance (though the pvp only abilities might fix this; we'll find out soon what they are and how they are earned), and as you (Lucavi) pointed out, lack of gap closers, along with client-server movement/detection issues (the afore mentioned hitting a moving target), the LoS requirement for mages... and if job moves are being ported over to pvp, the complete dominating power a brd has over classes

    Basically I don't have much hope in how this is all going to work together.

    Oh ... would be funny/ironic they gate PvP so you only start with 3 abilities and then unlock more over the duration of the patch ... Tomes of PvP ... etc... lol

    Melee - gap closer, a melee, a self heal
    Healer - heal, a DoT, a defensive buff
    Ranged - ranged attack, evasive type buff, a self heal
    Tank - AoE buff, some form of melee, self heal
    Mage - spell, annoying dot, self heal

    EDIT: nevermind the above speculation, I just saw that screenshot with the war/pvp abilities and it looks like you can still use your base ones ... so meh

  17. #17
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    HOT LITTLE SNATCH

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    Every MMO needs to just do PvP gearing like GW2. It's fucking dumb adding a gear gap, pretty much every MMO fucks it up entirely. Go try and start PvPing in TERA and you will literally get one shot or bursted in 2 seconds simply because in insane disparity in gear exists. You just have to sit through game after painful game of getting completely steamrolled until you have enough tokens to gear up. It's impossible to outplay people and even having the second best set of gear puts you at a severe disadvantage over those with the best.

    Same shit is guaranteed to happen here, worse yet is SE are retarded enough that I'd fully expect them to time gate gear, meaning you're again restricted to essentially one class and God help you if you start playing late. To top it off PvP skills are gated behind a progression system too, hopefully you pick everything up quickly or it's another huge slap in the face of balance.

  18. #18
    Hydra
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Stig View Post
    Anyways, there are many holes and uncertainties here. 1 is the imbalance (though the pvp only abilities might fix this; we'll find out soon what they are and how they are earned), and as you (Lucavi) pointed out, lack of gap closers, along with client-server movement/detection issues (the afore mentioned hitting a moving target),

    i actually pointed that stuff out but eh w/e...anyway if the dev team is smart they will find a way, either through starter gear or a bolster effect, to put players on the same footing in terms of Morale (pvp stat), otherwise the usual problems will crop up (full i90s steamrolling people in AF, newbies getting facerolled by people who grinded full pvp gearsets, aka Gear vs Gear instead of Player vs Player)

    I'm less concerned with some GvG in my PvP though, than I am with the latency issues.

  19. #19
    Hyperion Cross
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    Yeh sorry, I was just reiterating my lack of faith in general on top of what you mentioned.

  20. #20
    Yoshi P
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seravi Edalborez View Post
    I'm under the impression we will have all current abilities in addition to whatever we get from PvP-only. So working with what we know now.

    If our PvP repertoire is literally just the PvP abilities then this is totally pointless, considering from that one screenshot a WAR would only have 3 abilities.
    You mean 10 abilities?

    Spoiler: show


    I could see it being on top of the current abilities though. I forgot to consider that before.

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