FFXIV PVP Discussion Thread: HAHAH SLEEP!

[Avarice]

I'm wondering if it's better to do PvP on Gladiator rather than Paladin. I'd lose Sword Oath, Spirits Within, and Cover (Hallowed Ground is kinda whatever since tanks rarely get targetted anyway), but I'd gain not being restricted on my cross-class skills and gain things like Internal Release, Blood for Blood, Raging Strikes, and Invigorate (great for popping after Sprint to chase someone), which could help with bursting things.

Any opinions on the matter?

[Argantes]

I'm wondering if it's better to do PvP on Gladiator rather than Paladin. I'd lose Sword Oath, Spirits Within, and Cover (Hallowed Ground is kinda whatever since tanks rarely get targetted anyway), but I'd gain not being restricted on my cross-class skills and gain things like Internal Release, Blood for Blood, Raging Strikes, and Invigorate (great for popping after Sprint to chase someone), which could help with bursting things.

Any opinions on the matter?

Ive been considering this aswell.
It kinda depends on if you get something to replace spirits within with cause that's probably the only thing you'd miss. It's a great harassment tool, even on a longish cd.
The bump in damage will help though.

Only reason I really haven't yet is cause I don't have any good weapon/shield for Gladiator to replace HQ relic with yet. Oh, and SMN

[Avarice]

Ive been considering this aswell.
It kinda depends on if you get something to replace spirits within with cause that's probably the only thing you'd miss. It's a great harassment tool, even on a longish cd.
The bump in damage will help though.

Only reason I really haven't yet is cause I don't have any good weapon/shield for Gladiator to replace HQ relic with yet. Oh, and SMN

Well my Allagan Blade that I currently use can be equipped by Gladiator, so I'm good there. As for my Holy Shield Zenith, I don't even use it in there; I stuck on the crafted i55 shield for the morale since, again, no one targets tanks really so I have nothing I need to defend myself from usually. Truthfully, I think I'd miss Cover a lot too for those peel situations where Dragoons and Monks are glued to my healer, but at the same time, all those cross skills I'd gain would be great for bursting down a mage, especially when you throw in the Full Swing PvP skill.

[Kiarax]

Had a couple GLDs on our teams, losing Cover sucks but the trade off is definitely worth it with a decently coordinated team. Right now forcing the bene/lustrate then bursting the healer is pretty much a free win in 99% of games. Things will probably change once people get more gear though.

Also SCH is garbage.

[Gulkeeva]

Yeah... SCH is obviously bad >.>

just look at that terrible damage ;/

http://www.neko-sentai.com/images12nya/pvpfun.jpg

(going to be hell getting pvp rank/points in 1 month time the way things are going... especially if your new to pvp)

[shepardG]

You being serious kiarax? Lol

[Gulkeeva]

You being serious kiarax? Lol

SCH without pvp skills, can be pretty much ass raped within seconds yeah (same for whm soorta haha)
example
Drg jump stun so sch stops sprinting away-> war chain grab thing/bind -> gang bang, toss in random war stun/drg stun and the sch is possibly dead.

pretty much same for any class, if the healer don't have skills to prevent interrupts from anything touching them >.>

[Kiarax]

You being serious kiarax? Lol

WHM is definitely better in pretty much every way right now imo. I honestly can't see gearing up changing that either but we'll see. SCH is definitely workable too though, we used SCH our first 50~ games and still had a 80% win rate (in premades too, none of this babby 3 man shit). Miasma 2 is pretty much all SCH has going for it but it ain't shit on WHMs tools.

[Gulkeeva]

WHM is definitely better in pretty much every way right now imo. I honestly can't see gearing up changing that either but we'll see. SCH is definitely workable too though, we used SCH our first 50~ games and still had a 80% win rate (in premades too, none of this babby 3 man shit). Miasma 2 is pretty much all SCH has going for it but it ain't shit on WHMs tools.

I need to try whm sometime since I basically have comparable gear on both however...!
unlike an sch if their being locked down and unable to escape, they can't turtle mode -90% damage and have a fairy heal them to 100% hp

Won a game doing that, got down to 1% hp, so everyone was focused on trying to kill me, as just oh so magically went back to 100% hp through even a limitbreak during the time

[Slycer]

I played I think 22 matches last night on SCH either entering solo or with one other person and I only died in three of them (and one of those three was actually a win). I haven't had trouble surviving and curing in situations where I was being chased and interrupted by one or two people, and more often than not the person chasing me would give up to target someone else. Cutting tight around a wall to block LoS, hugging the wall tightly, and immediately beginning to cast the spell almost always allows the spell to get off successfully. Adloquium is amazing, and when you see a crit Adloquium on a crucial heal, that usually seals the match since it will block the next 2200-2500 damage and give you time to apply debuffs and create a lot of trouble. I would say Adloquium is SCH's best asset for this, with the fairy and Lustrate coming in tied for second.

You need to treat Lustrate like gold unless you have Aetherflow almost ready to use again, its primary use should be keeping someone alive once they have been diseased and heavily debuffed to the point where you won't reliably be able to get disease off in like 2 casts of Leeches, or if someone else is about to die and you're on the run. You should only use it on yourself in dire emergencies when you're on the run and you can't get to a wall fast enough to LoS someone. Purify is important, like it is to other jobs (perhaps moreso since you can wake others up), but that's the only PVP ability I've unlocked so far and I'm just saving up the rest of my AP so I can see how fights play out before I commit to something else. Also, the fairy is obviously fantastic, and because she goes unnoticed by way too many people aside from the occasional sleep, she just makes it that much tougher to kill someone.

The only thing that gives you major trouble, and the only times I've died, is when I was locked by rotating Stuns and focus targeted by multiple DPS for upwards of 10 seconds (like completely locked without a split second to perform any action), but I don't really see how this would be any different on WHM. I think WHM and SCH are both pretty well-equipped healers for this, just in very different ways.

[Elcura]

If you get SCH or WHM in a bad position you'll rape either in no time, otherwise, both are a pain to kill if they're played right. I dunno how this isn't obvious yet.

[Slycer]

Just trying to point out that a bad experience with someone on a particular job doesn't necessarily mean that the job is worthless, more likely that the person isn't playing it effectively. This is probably true for all jobs, not just SCH. Part of being healer in there is knowing you're going to be a high priority target, and understanding how you can get out of situations where you're locked down.

[Ksandra]

Also SCH is garbage.

You being serious kiarax? Lol

Kiarax has been trying to stick his dick in the crazy for awhile, I'd be careful on it warping his mind.

<3

But seriously I hope the crazy is worth it.

[Ksandra]

If you get SCH or WHM in a bad position you'll rape either in no time, otherwise, both are a pain to kill if they're played right. I dunno how this isn't obvious yet.

I think it's apparent to most people. It's just having to defend against being told "sch is 100% unviable".

I agree that as long as either healer actually knows how to pvp, you are in trouble.

[Seravi Edalborez]

The only thing that gives you major trouble, and the only times I've died, is when I was locked by rotating Stuns and focus targeted by multiple DPS for upwards of 10 seconds (like completely locked without a split second to perform any action), but I don't really see how this would be any different on WHM. I think WHM and SCH are both pretty well-equipped healers for this, just in very different ways.

This happens almost every other match in premade vs premade.

Granted, not having any pvp experience in anything ever I'm probably running around too retardedly. I blow Lustrate way too quick and in some wins it seems like I never have to heal for whatever reason.

[Icarian]

Tried PvP today with MNK, what the hell are melee supposed to do? Because doing damage is not what you're going to do seeing as people only need to run to make you unable to land a WS.

[Slycer]

This happens almost every other match in premade vs premade.

Granted, not having any pvp experience in anything ever I'm probably running around too retardedly. I blow Lustrate way too quick and in some wins it seems like I never have to heal for whatever reason.

If it's really that frequent in premade, maybe it makes sense to buy up some Stun resist potions and pop one as soon as you see people charging at you?

[Kiarax]

Kiarax has been trying to stick his dick in the crazy for awhile, I'd be careful on it warping his mind.

<3

But seriously I hope the crazy is worth it.

Lol, the difference between SCH and WHM should be very apparent to anyone with PvP experience just by looking at their skills. SCH is far too reliant on long CDs and has no built in tools to deal with people harassing them. If SCH's PvP skills had shorter CDs they'd be in a much better spot, but right now they're plain and simply just inferior. Doesn't mean you can't make SCH work, but you're definitely at a disadvantage if you're up against a coordinated team with a WHM.

Tried PvP today with MNK, what the hell are melee supposed to do? Because doing damage is not what you're going to do seeing as people only need to run to make you unable to land a WS.

Fulltime FoW if you're not already, alleviates most of the problems meleeing moving targets. If a mage pops sprint don't be afraid to use it too, TP is never an issue and you have Invig if you need it. One Ilm Punch is your new best friend and will rip off almost every buff you can think of, if the enemy has a WHM you better be ready to spam this shit or you'll never be outdamaging Regen/Medica 2. I find our DoTs super helpful here since it's very easy to tag people with ToD/Fracture and you're never getting the bonus to Snap Punch anyway. If you're still having trouble hitting people try locking on to them, lets you very easily stick to them without running ahead or to the side by mistake. Just be wary of them turning corners because they can effortlessly put the fence between you and them if you're just holding W.

[Datonare]

Seen a few in full i70. How high pvp rank have some of you gotten, those who have been grinding it out?

[Icarian]

Fulltime FoW if you're not already, alleviates most of the problems meleeing moving targets. If a mage pops sprint don't be afraid to use it too, TP is never an issue and you have Invig if you need it. One Ilm Punch is your new best friend and will rip off almost every buff you can think of, if the enemy has a WHM you better be ready to spam this shit or you'll never be outdamaging Regen/Medica 2. I find our DoTs super helpful here since it's very easy to tag people with ToD/Fracture and you're never getting the bonus to Snap Punch anyway. If you're still having trouble hitting people try locking on to them, lets you very easily stick to them without running ahead or to the side by mistake. Just be wary of them turning corners because they can effortlessly put the fence between you and them if you're just holding W.

I still get kited way too easily, Mages can just sprint away and MNK damage with the inability to have GL/TwS(sorta)/DK/FoF buffs is extremely lackluster plus you're barely getting any positional bonuses which all of our skills have, with classes like SMN and BRD being able to do much more damage while moving, there's absolutely no reason to bring a MNK.

I keep getting slowed or my target sprints away so I spend most of the time trying to catch up and when I do, my damage is so pathetic it doesn't really matter.