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  1. #101
    Relic Shield
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bukadan View Post
    the whm was miserable because he didnt have a yagrush?
    Miserable whm reporting in. Thanks a lot Fiv! Anyway, in all seriousness, iirc slowga in that fight had a huge range and everyone needs it erased. The SMN is /SCH to take advantage of being able to nuke the summons while in Dark Arts, the BRD was /NIN I believe, SCH is dealing with stuns and also is in dark arts so there is no one to assist with erasing or haste. Obviously, we managed to get wins regardless or Fival wouldn't post about it, but it's just easier to deal with if you have Yagrush on the WHM since Divine Seal is not always up and Accession is not always available and increases the recast of Erase.

  2. #102
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    I did several VD runs with NIN, SAM/NIN, WHM, GEO/BLM, BRD, SMN (no outside buffs) before the last patch. GEO Torpor and Stun debuff spells until 50% then focus Fetters, SMN Diamond Storm/Ecliptic Growl/Earthen Armor/Crimson Howl (should add Crystal Blessing/Hastega II when SV not up and Pacifying Ruby WHM sometimes now), BRD Scherzo/March/Madrigal/CC Minuet... There is not much else to say, Kam'lanaut is still tougher than other VD fights but I don't really consider it a challenge anymore now.

  3. #103
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    It would be interesting to try it with a geo or two now, when my group did this geo wasn't quite what it is now. Most of my group is not playing currently sadly, so i probably wont get to retry it with super buffed 1hander damage. In the strategy we used almost a year ago, could probably replace the sch with a geo easily as said above, and get far more use out of that slot.

  4. #104
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    I wish i played more often, papesse, its fun to do things with you and your group of people!

    Niv, I hope you didnt take what i was saying as an offensive lecture of some kind. I've been a whm main at some point in my career (basically till i got a 2nd character, but was sorta-kinda drk early delve for some reason.), and i can say that meds are just as important for melee as they are for mages. (panaceas, remedies, hi-lixers, viles, foods, antacids, ect) It should be noted that having (and utilizing correctly and timely ie; efficiently) meds such as panacea and remedies for this fight should be a certainty. (100% of the time is more acceptable but at the very least, this fight since its what were talking about). unless a particular setup/team/group that is aiming to beat this on D+ (not referring to yours, again, you guys clearly win) wants to include "gil spent on consumables" as something that must be carefully contained, (in my opinion its a mages/melee's job to have these at all times, for the huge amount of situations that could arise) then theyll have rely on the sole whm to get rid of the slows and other status effects like that. even with a yagrush youll find being able to simply cast haste on the players you see using panaceas/players you know instantly use them, will directly show in dps, even considering the time spent on panacea usage.

  5. #105
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    I didn't take it as an offensive lecture. I was just amused by Fiv's mention of me being miserable doing the fight as WHM. The SMN in the group we had has a Yagrush, but due to setup we wanted and the jobs we had available, there was no way to have him play WHM instead.

  6. #106
    Ridill
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    If slowga is that much of a hassle couldn't you just use march + geo-haste. Should be able to maintain capped magic haste even with slow up. Sure you will lose some buffs but you will gain the time spent using meds/casting erase and waiting for rehastes.

  7. #107
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    thats a very good way to handle it too. but i think that may be more viable if you have outside buffs? no?

  8. #108
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    Haste Samba, March +5 x2, Geo-Haste and capped gear Haste is ~100% Haste, so Slowga could be -20% and you'd still be capped. With 30% DW or MA, it could be -29% and you'd still be capped. If you put a JA on that Geo-Haste or March, you're going to be capped no matter what.

    It depends whether or not you *need* Torpor. Steps don't perfectly compensate, but Lethargic Daze level 10 is -44 Evasion.


    Bring DNC5eva. We do gud dmg 2.

  9. #109
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    Also somewhat depends on your geo. Looks like you assumed only ~33% for geo-haste which I think is what it would be with just +5 geomancy so you'd get a little more with Idris. With Jas you could probably drop one of the marches for another mad if you need the acc... or actually he only mentioned 1 geo so could still do torpor and haste. Or just get a 2nd geo bwhahhaha

    Oh man I was just thinking though that 300 tp bonus from blessing is even more ridiculous with a ws like rudra's

  10. #110
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    have to be careful with geo because like you said it depends on the geo. some geo's (like bards) arent good at making sure their buffs are up full time with as little downtime as possible within the parameters required to be considered a "constant buff". so basically if you can get an a-list dnc or geo you can make certain changes to your strat since you can be certain that youll have constant buffs.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    Haste Samba, March +5 x2, Geo-Haste and capped gear Haste is ~100% Haste, so Slowga could be -20% and you'd still be capped. With 30% DW or MA, it could be -29% and you'd still be capped. If you put a JA on that Geo-Haste or March, you're going to be capped no matter what.

    It depends whether or not you *need* Torpor. Steps don't perfectly compensate, but Lethargic Daze level 10 is -44 Evasion.


    Bring DNC5eva. We do gud dmg 2.
    I don't know any awesome DNC and they were considerably less awesome 12 months ago!

    More to point however, our group at the time was limited job wise, we adjusted the strategy for every fight based on the jobs we had, not particularly the most efficient way to do the fight. All this talk makes me want to try more interesting setups like we used to, but everyone is either not wanting to play or 401'd.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damane View Post
    DD Run makes this fight a complete joke, foil the shit out of light blade and just DD along with a PLD, if hate reset happens the cooldowns of RUN are more then enough to bring everything back into position.
    I'll try that on D with my current LS sometime. We have a lot of RUN players who would like to partake in content such as this and I love going PLD to things. Normally, I do this fight on SCH as main healer so we can bring in an extra buffer and get the benefits of Embrava and Phalanxga.

    Since you mentioned Foil, I think I'll bring this up. I wasn't going to, but I will now. The following is an observation and one I have not focused on enough times to declare it "tested" or factual:

    Spoiler: show

    The last two times I've gone in on E, I have noticed that the closer I was to Kam'lanaut, the less accurate Light Blade became. Now, I'm hesitant to make a call on accuracy actually being variable for a few reasons. Firstly, since higher-tier mission fight enemies all have combat skill levels representative of level ~99 mobs only, you'll actually parry and block quite a bit during these fights. If you have Ochain with merits, you're at 100% block rate. It's not like a Delve boss that you use Intervene on, where you immediately know that you've dropped the ACC because before it had capped ACC.

    Obviously, I will continue to tinker with this and update accordingly.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sephiran View Post
    I'll try that on D with my current LS sometime. We have a lot of RUN players who would like to partake in content such as this and I love going PLD to things. Normally, I do this fight on SCH as main healer so we can bring in an extra buffer and get the benefits of Embrava and Phalanxga.

    Since you mentioned Foil, I think I'll bring this up. I wasn't going to, but I will now. The following is an observation and one I have not focused on enough times to declare it "tested" or factual:

    Spoiler: show

    The last two times I've gone in on E, I have noticed that the closer I was to Kam'lanaut, the less accurate Light Blade became. Now, I'm hesitant to make a call on accuracy actually being variable for a few reasons. Firstly, since higher-tier mission fight enemies all have combat skill levels representative of level ~99 mobs only, you'll actually parry and block quite a bit during these fights. If you have Ochain with merits, you're at 100% block rate. It's not like a Delve boss that you use Intervene on, where you immediately know that you've dropped the ACC because before it had capped ACC.

    Obviously, I will continue to tinker with this and update accordingly.
    As far as the accuracy, parried single-hit TP moves will be sent to your chat log as a "miss" and you can't parry if the enemy is more than 6' away or something. That might be responsible for the "accuracy" variability that you saw. In my experience, every BC mob above E has pretty amazing accuracy against my Dancer, so I doubt Paladin would exactly be evading them.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    As far as the accuracy, parried single-hit TP moves will be sent to your chat log as a "miss" and you can't parry if the enemy is more than 6' away or something. That might be responsible for the "accuracy" variability that you saw. In my experience, every BC mob above E has pretty amazing accuracy against my Dancer, so I doubt Paladin would exactly be evading them.
    My point exactly. Either getting lucky parries or there is a legitimate variation in Light Blade's ACC, which is why I want to observe this more on other difficulties. I didn't bother stating PLD's low EVA just because...well, you all know it, right? That's why my interest is piqued in the first place. PLD should not be getting missed by Light Blade. Some RUN's and NIN's I know like to solo this fight on VE a lot for fun. Had they told me Light Blade misses them, I wouldn't have thought anything of it because they play an evasive job. Technically, the reason PLD can solo this on E is because of the fact that your low EVA allows you to exploit Shield Mastery pretty well. At at the very terminal end of the fight, when you'll be supertanking 4~6 clones, it's a viable way to kill him alone in full DT gear WS'ing only at 3000 TP with Spirits Within over and over. You'll have TP for it every few seconds. This has become less necessary due the revisions to Savage Blade, which will be okay to spam at lower values of TP, and while it may miss, you can spam more to make up for misses. But it's really up to you. If you are a Galka, the Spirits Within method is probably better.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    Haste Samba, March +5 x2, Geo-Haste and capped gear Haste is ~100% Haste, so Slowga could be -20% and you'd still be capped. With 30% DW or MA, it could be -29% and you'd still be capped. If you put a JA on that Geo-Haste or March, you're going to be capped no matter what.
    Has this actually been tested? I was always under the impression that slow was after the haste cap, but I haven't tested it either.

  16. #116
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    i mean why wouldnt it just be -20 to the 100 total being given? even if it was from haste cap, im sure it would still count the numbers unaccounted for prior to being slowed right?

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bukadan View Post
    i mean why wouldnt it just be -20 to the 100 total being given? even if it was from haste cap, im sure it would still count the numbers unaccounted for prior to being slowed right?
    i really doubt that, the devs are known for makeing detrimental effects be stronger, for example you cant overwride attack down with an attack up move etc. i wouldnt be surprised if the slow would just count from the haste cap.

  18. #118
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    It's additive:
    Weakened Reraise has a 2 minute recast, but Weakened Reraise with 25% Haste has a 1:45 recast. IIRC I also quantified "Slow+" gear at one point and found the same thing (additive vs. multiplicative).


    Plus, I've used that strategy on Ouryu (SV songs, GEO-Haste, and /DNC) and it works.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byrthnoth View Post
    It's additive:
    Weakened Reraise has a 2 minute recast, but Weakened Reraise with 25% Haste has a 1:45 recast. IIRC I also quantified "Slow+" gear at one point and found the same thing (additive vs. multiplicative).
    I know it's additive, but is the haste cap before or after the addition? I.e. non weakened reraise would cap @ 12 seconds, does weakened reraise cap at 1:12 or can you push it below that. (Without strategems)

  20. #120
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    I'm pretty sure it's applied afterwards, or Ouryu would have been slow going. (yuk yuk yuk)

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