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  1. #21
    Old Odin
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    That gimmick took out long jumping so I hate it arbitrarily for that.

  2. #22

    Mario actually has designers who know what their doing though. Sonic's design ranges from acceptable to abhorant (and in a very few rare cases; good).

  3. #23
    The Defense is ready, Your Honor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elcura View Post
    Why are western game developers ruining Japanese characters? It's DmC all over again.
    Because Japan wants them to make the games to "appeal to western tastes", whatever the fuck that means. Considering the sheer amount of weaboos drooling over KH and the tales series, this whole "western-appeal" mindset is retarded. You're not getting CoD money, SE, so don't try. Nobody wants this.

  4. #24
    Falcom is better than SE. Change my mind.
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    I don't mind Tails and Amy, but Sonic and Knuckles are just... what the hell?

  5. #25
    I'm more gentle than I look.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corrderio View Post
    I don't mind Tails and Amy, but Sonic and Knuckles are just... what the hell?
    This

    also, what was the last Sonic game that didn't suck? I stopped playing after Dreamcast (Sonic Adventure II)

  6. #26
    It's all dicks and airplanes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cream Soda View Post
    This

    also, what was the last Sonic game that didn't suck? I stopped playing after Dreamcast (Sonic Adventure II)
    I want to say Generations. But that one was so short and left so much to be desired.. but what was there was decent enough.

    Sonic is just in a bad way right now.

  7. #27

    Quote Originally Posted by Corrderio View Post
    I don't mind Tails and Amy, but Sonic and Knuckles are just... what the hell?
    Cause they literally didn't change Tails at all, they just gave him some random shit. Amy just got sluttier, which I guess is good for the furries?

    Sonic Generations and Colours are the best Sonic games that came out recently. Unleashed is also good if you can forgive the night levels.

  8. #28
    Old Odin
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    Generations is very solid but painfully short. I'm probably in the minority that thought Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog weren't that bad, but that's probably a bit of nostalgia talking. '06 and Unleashed's night levels are the only really awful mainstream Sonic games recently imo. Though I've not played the storybook ones (Black Knight and the other Wii one).

  9. #29
    Pens win! Pens Win!!! PENS WIN!!!!!
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    Sonic Colors was pretty good. Sonic Lost World isnt bad but not great either.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cream Soda View Post
    This

    also, what was the last Sonic game that didn't suck? I stopped playing after Dreamcast (Sonic Adventure II)
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ox_artwork.png

    on steam

  11. #31
    Pandemonium
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elcura View Post
    Why are western game developers ruining Japanese characters? It's DmC all over again.
    I had a feeling that someone might say this. I understand why you think this will be the case, but in the case of Sonic, it's not.

    Any article that talks about Sonic being "refitted" to Western tastes ignores the fact that he was designed to do so originally. In fact, the reason there are different origin stories for the character isn't due to mis-translations, or its having been the 1990s, or anything along those lines—it was specifically because SEGA wanted to let the different regions define Sonic as they saw fit, after using some base elements of his character for a foundation.

    There are a fair chunk of titles that were not developed in Japan, too—and one of the all-time most famous is "Sonic the Hedgehog 2." This is why—despite the fact that "Sonic CD" and Sonic 2 were being developed around the same time—SCD and Sonic 2 are so functionally different. As most of you may already know, S2 was also the title whose conventions were carried on through the rest of the series, despite the fact that it was not made in Japan. It's true that Japanese developers worked on it, but as the Polygon article indicates, it is not as if there will be no Japanese influence on "Sonic Boom" at all (because of course there will be).

    Furthermore, SEGA set about reuniting these separately-invented traits as best they could, rather than rejecting foreign interpretations outright—this is why, for example, Eggman's real name is now Robotnik, and "Eggman" is officially a nickname. Sonic loving chili dogs was a Western addition, and now he orders them in commercials for the Olympics crossovers. These are across-the-board, canon character traits. Then, there's the fact that "Sonic Adventure" and "Sonic Adventure 2" are effectively based in the United States, and so is the anime, "Sonic X" (since the anime essentially adapts SA2 in addition to having its own stories here and there).

    As if that weren't enough, this won't even be the first time an attempt to tie things in with Western-produced animated series was made. "Sonic Spinball" had cameos from the Saturday morning "Sonic the Hedgehog" cartoon, and used its design for Robotnik; further, a game was being developed based on that cartoon, too, though it was never released.

    Considering, this is not anything new. Not by a long shot. This has been the way of Sonic since day one.

    The character redesigns, though? Ass. No way of getting around that.

  12. #32
    Shimmy shimmy ya shimmy yam shimmy ya
    Sweaty Dick Punching Enthusiast

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    Gotta go fast!

  13. #33
    Pandemonium
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xno Kappa View Post
    Gotta go fast!
    Not anymore. Haven't you been reading the Internet?

    http://24.media.tumblr.com/1daded6ab...fovo1_1280.png

  14. #34
    Shimmy shimmy ya shimmy yam shimmy ya
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    Tell me the left portion of the pic is photoshopped!?

  15. #35
    Pandemonium
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    Yeah, it is. You can see the actual still in the YouTube video at the top of this thread. However, the joke is valid, because his legs overall are longer than they have been in any previous Sonic incarnation.

    Much more apt bashing of the redesigns can be found here:

    http://kotaku.com/the-internet-react...nic-1517800840

    One of my personal favorites:


  16. #36

    Quote Originally Posted by Kohan View Post
    I had a feeling that someone might say this. I understand why you think this will be the case, but in the case of Sonic, it's not.

    Any article that talks about Sonic being "refitted" to Western tastes ignores the fact that he was designed to do so originally. In fact, the reason there are different origin stories for the character isn't due to mis-translations, or its having been the 1990s, or anything along those lines—it was specifically because SEGA wanted to let the different regions define Sonic as they saw fit, after using some base elements of his character for a foundation.

    There are a fair chunk of titles that were not developed in Japan, too—and one of the all-time most famous is "Sonic the Hedgehog 2." This is why—despite the fact that "Sonic CD" and Sonic 2 were being developed around the same time—SCD and Sonic 2 are so functionally different. As most of you may already know, S2 was also the title whose conventions were carried on through the rest of the series, despite the fact that it was not made in Japan. It's true that Japanese developers worked on it, but as the Polygon article indicates, it is not as if there will be no Japanese influence on "Sonic Boom" at all (because of course there will be).

    Furthermore, SEGA set about reuniting these separately-invented traits as best they could, rather than rejecting foreign interpretations outright—this is why, for example, Eggman's real name is now Robotnik, and "Eggman" is officially a nickname. Sonic loving chili dogs was a Western addition, and now he orders them in commercials for the Olympics crossovers. These are across-the-board, canon character traits. Then, there's the fact that "Sonic Adventure" and "Sonic Adventure 2" are effectively based in the United States, and so is the anime, "Sonic X" (since the anime essentially adapts SA2 in addition to having its own stories here and there).

    As if that weren't enough, this won't even be the first time an attempt to tie things in with Western-produced animated series was made. "Sonic Spinball" had cameos from the Saturday morning "Sonic the Hedgehog" cartoon, and used its design for Robotnik; further, a game was being developed based on that cartoon, too, though it was never released.

    Considering, this is not anything new. Not by a long shot. This has been the way of Sonic since day one.

    The character redesigns, though? Ass. No way of getting around that.
    You're reading faaaaar too much into this. They hand off the development to another studio, the studio redesigns because why the fuck not and ruin what people like about the characters (and in Sonic's case, their appearance is all that was left sacred from the old days...mostly). Like DmC. Regardless of whether Sonic was design or catered to westerners (a nice thing to know...but...) doesn't change that passing off development to a western studio is ass all around.

  17. #37
    Pandemonium
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elcura View Post
    You're reading faaaaar too much into this.
    I don't see how.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elcura
    They hand off the development to another studio, the studio redesigns because why the fuck not and ruin what people like about the characters (and in Sonic's case, their appearance is all that was left sacred from the old days...mostly). Like DmC.
    Except not, because the person overseeing the production has been doing design for the franchise since Sonic 3 and "Sonic & Knuckles." He also did the "Sonic Adventure" redesign.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elcura
    Regardless of whether Sonic was design or catered to westerners (a nice thing to know...but...) doesn't change that passing off development to a western studio is ass all around.
    I suppose you missed the part where I mentioned that this isn't the first time they've passed development off to Western studios, and that it culminated in one of the best Sonic games ever made. That, and DmC was a case of fixing something that wasn't broken (as Capcom was trying to widen the series' appeal, when it could've continued to enjoy the safe bet of catering to its existing fan base)—Sonic has been broken for years.

    It's not the same.

  18. #38

    Quote Originally Posted by Kohan View Post
    I don't see how.
    Of course you don't see how, it's what you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kohan View Post
    Except not, because the person overseeing the production has been doing design for the franchise since Sonic 3 and "Sonic & Knuckles." He also did the "Sonic Adventure" redesign.
    Which was also ass. I've gotten use to modern Sonic but... classic > modern > whatever the fuck this is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kohan View Post
    I suppose you missed the part where I mentioned that this isn't the first time they've passed development off to Western studios, and that it culminated in one of the best Sonic games ever made. That, and DmC was a case of fixing something that wasn't broken (as Capcom was trying to widen the series' appeal, when it could've continued to enjoy the safe bet of catering to its existing fan base)—Sonic has been broken for years.

    It's not the same.
    OK, it's backwards but that's still not the point. The act of outsourcing is what I'm suggesting is the problem (even moreso from east to west). Thanks for all the random details, but it won't change that outsourcing established IPs is stupid.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elcura View Post
    Of course you don't see how, it's what you do.
    You could have used that as an opportunity to elaborate. I don't understand how explaining the history of a franchise and the development of various titles within it is "reading far too much" into something—I consider it actually using an opportunity to educate people. Sonic has never been a franchise whose titles were exclusively developed in Japan. Additionally, and for a long time now, even when they were made in Japan, they were usually not made by Sonic Team—and Sonic Team doesn't have any of the strongest founding members in it anymore, and hasn't for a very long time.

    I don't understand how anyone could see that as unrelated information. If you want to pretend that the same people have been working on the franchise for all of this time, and that they're all Japanese, and that they all work for SEGA—well, I suppose you can, but why? There's no point to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elcura
    Which was also ass. I've gotten use to modern Sonic but... classic > modern > whatever the fuck this is.
    The point of the statement, though, was to counter what you said about a Western studio redesigning Sonic for the heck of it, because that's not correct. I despise the new design as well, but it's not factual to imply that the new look is wholly a Western creation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elcura
    OK, it's backwards but that's still not the point. The act of outsourcing is what I'm suggesting is the problem (even moreso from east to west). Thanks for all the random details, but it won't change that outsourcing established IPs is stupid.
    No, it's not. You're entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't make it fact. You seem to have a lot of bias toward Japanese development houses, for some reason (and without even knowing what they have and haven't made). That, and you're refusing to understand the significance of the history of the franchise, and I don't know why you would.

    To go further, the Rivals series were some of the better portable Sonic games of recent years. They weren't made in-house. "Sonic Rush" was seen as a revitalizing title when it came out. That wasn't made in-house. The only good levels in "Sonic Unleashed" weren't made in-house. We could go on.

    In summary, almost every post-Mega Drive/Genesis title that was not made by Sonic Team was accepted as being truer and more fun than what they released. That, and Sonic titles being developed by other people—whether they're entries in the main franchise, or off-shoots—is nothing new.

    I can't stand the new design, but the notion of having a foreign development house handling Sonic isn't new, and it's probably needed at this point. The Sonic Team of today has repeatedly proven that they're not worthy of carrying the title their predecessors built up.

  20. #40
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    I just want to see how many times Japan can slap the word "western" in a single sentence before it becomes a flat-out fetish for them.

    Western western western yo! Between western and foreigner all the goddamn time, I'm beginning to think they only like us for our wallets.