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  1. #101
    Pandemonium
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuronosan View Post
    That depends, I still fully support the woman's right to choose but still think it's quite a dick move to not give the husband input. I still think input should be given if it's not a marital relationship but care significantly less what the outcome is. It's her choice, even if I don't agree with it.

    A man, on the other hand, should be able to say "ey fuck you" if he doesn't want the baby but the woman wants to keep it. It's only fair.

    For me I might be insulted or offended if I want to keep the child and she doesn't, but it ain't my body it's growing in. I'd have to either move on or respect it.
    Ah, I remember now.

    I think the last sentence is indicative of your softening on this. While you do still morally feel a certain way, you are not forcing it upon anyone. I personally believe there are areas where men's rights in relation to children should be expanded, but preventing an abortion is definitely not one of them.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuronosan View Post
    Yay I agree with Kohan on something.
    It's easy to agree with her on many political and social issues as long as it's not feminism.

  3. #103
    BG Medical's Student of Medicine
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    I don't agree with her on feminism at all. I still believe true equality means equal footing which means a man should have input on baby development.

    But I just happen to agree that if a woman says no you can't force her to just have your child. If you want children that bad and she didn't it's better to either respect it or go find someone else.

  4. #104
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    see, we just need to invent uterine replicators so that if your ladyfriend doesnt want the kid and you do you can just scoop it out and grow it yourself.

    THAT'S ALL, GUYS. CMON. NO BIG DEAL

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aksannyi View Post
    It's fine that none of you see that atheism has become exactly what they hate, which is a band of people who go out of their way to try to force their beliefs on others. Whether this is organized is irrelevant, honestly. Pushing your beliefs on others doesn't have to stem from an organized religion/cult/whatever. You all seem to hate it so much when people do it to you, so I find it both hilarious and sad that atheists have begun doing the same thing they loathe.

    That's the last word I'm going to say on the subject. You can argue with me all you want, but what it comes down to is this: in this very thread, I've seen countless non-religious people put down religion, say it's stupid, and say anyone who follows religion is stupid. The ravenous posters on this forum will devour anyone alive who claims that they believe in any higher power or entity, with a whole host of disparaging remarks, and a whole heap of "but you shouldn't" and "you should" and - here's the kicker - telling people what to believe.

    Whether you want to call it proselytizing or not, fine. But there are very few atheists I've met who aren't as vocal about their disdain for the religious and working on "changing the minds of the misguided" as the religious people they happen to loathe.
    I don't think one of the tennets of atheism is not enforcing your will on others. Atheists tend to hate religion with a passion and if they could wipe it off the face of the earth they would.

    They don't hate religion because it's pushy, although that might be a reason why some atheists are militant. They hate religion because it's stupid.

  6. #106
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    I honestly find it funny when people bring up the whole "you're just like religious people!" argument because it depends on the presupposition that I care.

    Honey, i am just as vicious as any religious zealot, the difference is I don't tie my zealotry to something that's made up.

  7. #107
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    I'm fine being called a zealot about wanting people to learn critical thinking skills, to understand the scientific method, and to keep a rationally skeptical outlook on all unsubstantiated claims posed to them.

    You don't do these things?

    You're an idiot, fuck you, go away and stop talking to me.

  8. #108

    Sweaty Dick Punching Enthusiast

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    Wow, that is. . .a fucked up bill.

    Kind of tired of living in the US. Slowly but surely, you're losing your right to be yourself.

  9. #109
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    What eventually turned me against the religious beliefs that I was raised was mostly becuase I thought about things too much. I questioned many things even early on because I honestly don't have enough of the emotion of faith to exist without thinking about things or accepting answer that are vague in regards to being in 'god's will'. When people in my youth ministry groups would talk about feeling god's presense or the like, I never had the same sense of that at all. For years I kind of wondered what I was missing what others didn't. As I got older I understood alot of that. That religion basically demands you not to think critically about things and because I couldn't go that direction I was never going to get it or to have that belief at all.

    To me, that's the core of the difference between religion and non-belief in the general sense. It's not the idea of religion that offends most non-believers it the continual use of religion to dumb down processes, ignore evidence, and dismiss everything as an act of god as a excuse to do nothing to keep things exactly as they are. The sad reality is it is much easier to influnce things through emotionism which is the base point of religion then it is with facts.

  10. #110



    Kansas was just using science

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edelweiss View Post
    It's easy to agree with her on many political and social issues as long as it's not feminism.
    I imagine you agree with every viewpoint I would share that could be associated with feminism, but that you may simply dislike the word "feminism," which is usually the case. As someone who is hard-line on following facts, I also defend the concept of feminism against nay-say, because to not do so merely due to its social perception would be hypocritical of me.

    However, if it makes you feel more comfortable, I identify as a humanist well before identifying as a feminist, which I consider a qualifying sub-sect of humanism. As I recognize that the current popular "neo-feminist" insults men to the benefit of women, I have no desire whatsoever to be grouped with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by kuronosan View Post
    I don't agree with her on feminism at all. I still believe true equality means equal footing which means a man should have input on baby development.

    But I just happen to agree that if a woman says no you can't force her to just have your child. If you want children that bad and she didn't it's better to either respect it or go find someone else.
    I also don't understand why you believe this means you disagree with me. In my previous post in this thread, I noted that men's rights should be expanded. Equality means that all gender-influenced decisions go away, including those that benefit women for no valid scientific reason. This means that any biases in our legal system should be abolished. What do you think you disagree with?

  12. #112
    C A P S UNLEASH THE FURY
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    Atheist zealotry is generally borne out of the feeling that religion is harmful to society and those who act upon this often liken themselves to anti-war or civil rights groups. On the other hand, religious zealots often truly believe that spreading the word and being pushy is what's best for the world around them.

    I have neither ever had nor ever witnessed a debate in which a religious person was convinced by an atheist's arguments through reason, critical thinking, and evidence. As such, I err on the side of keeping it largely to myself these days, because as much as I may disagree, it is almost always an exercise in futility to persuade others of the truth.

    That being said, there are thankfully laws that protect any of these groups from going too far, and the scales seem to be slightly tipping towards reason and freedom of life over freedom of religion. Don't impose your religion on the gays, the gays won't impose their gay on you.



    I'd also like to say regarding men's rights as they pertain to abortion - we are put at a fundamental disadvantage that I believe makes it essentially impossible for our opinions on the matter to hold much weight. At the end of the day, we really cannot make the decision in that situation, and whether or not that should matter, it affects the entire dialogue in a serious way. I can't imagine any "fair" way of doing it. I actually have a buddy who recently had a pregnancy scare with his girl, and she told him she would have aborted it and not even mentioned it to him if she knew she was pregnant, and he got extremely upset. He's religious and considers it murder or some stupid shit. I basically told him "that's why you have to wrap it up". We have no control

  13. #113
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    Even as said scales tip though, you're going to have the people who shout and cry "oh my gosh, we're drifting away from the Christian ideals that founded America; we're doomed!!!" Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to see it happening (the shift I mean), but I wish it was a quieter process -- maybe refraining from giving the most outspoken a mic would help..

  14. #114

    Quote Originally Posted by Xajii View Post
    Atheist zealotry is generally borne out of the feeling that religion is harmful to society and those who act upon this often liken themselves to anti-war or civil rights groups. On the other hand, religious zealots often truly believe that spreading the word and being pushy is what's best for the world around them.

    It's not a feeling or a belief. It's proven fact. Religion, when allowed to supercede science and credence, sets our species back hundreds if not thousands of years. Best-known recorded example: 12th century, Imam Hamid al-Ghazali. See any historically literate scientist for more information; hell, even NDT has done a topic on him.

    People like to throw the excuse "Well, that can't happen again." Bullshit. It totally can, and the frog / frying pan example is very befitting of how religion is still fighting. Look at what the Christian rise did to sex education ( specifically to the pagan Grecian / Romans ( mos maiorum ) who were perfectly fine with eros in public life, but also in other widespread nonsense such as the concept of virginity presented in the Septuagint that helped fuck up all the Abrahamic religions - protip, translators; that word doesn't mean what you think it means ), and how recently abortion became a widely regulated topic ( Christianity did not specifically legate opposition to abortion until the 1500s and didn't enforce said mode until the 1850s when the Victorian Era took off; given that it has recorded practice since thousands of BC this was not a 'quick' process ). Don't even get me started on the homosexual notion, people STILL use Leviticus 18:22 when it has been disproven again and again to mean the notion they present ( again, protip translators; those words don't mean what you think they mean ).

    People in general don't care enough to learn and are easily mislead and / or seek consoling words to their bigotry, and thus organised religion lives on.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aksannyi View Post
    It's fine that none of you see that atheism has become exactly what they hate, which is a band of people who go out of their way to try to force their beliefs on others. Whether this is organized is irrelevant, honestly. Pushing your beliefs on others doesn't have to stem from an organized religion/cult/whatever. You all seem to hate it so much when people do it to you, so I find it both hilarious and sad that atheists have begun doing the same thing they loathe.

    That's the last word I'm going to say on the subject. You can argue with me all you want, but what it comes down to is this: in this very thread, I've seen countless non-religious people put down religion, say it's stupid, and say anyone who follows religion is stupid. The ravenous posters on this forum will devour anyone alive who claims that they believe in any higher power or entity, with a whole host of disparaging remarks, and a whole heap of "but you shouldn't" and "you should" and - here's the kicker - telling people what to believe.

    Whether you want to call it proselytizing or not, fine. But there are very few atheists I've met who aren't as vocal about their disdain for the religious and working on "changing the minds of the misguided" as the religious people they happen to loathe.
    Always irritate me, that attitude. "Look, it's ok to be an atheist, but please conceal yourself in the nearest closet."

    If you're open about your atheism, you're the new Pol Pot, apparently. Worst is that this very american view on atheism is starting to be exported this way through the internet.


    Look, trying to pass laws based on your religion is pushing your religion/irreligion on others.
    Assaulting others in accordance with your religious beliefs (e.g.: homophobic violence) is pushing your religion on others.
    Accosting a complete stranger in the street to proselytize is attempting to push your religion on others (but it's easily avoided).
    Sharing one's opinions about religion on a message board, in the very section reserved for those topics is not.

    I've never witnessed or heard of an atheist doing any of the 3 former actions, even the milder 3rd one (would be funny, tbh), save for the usual well-known "communist" regimes.

    I haven't seen anyone calling any religion stupid in this thread, either; at least prior to the quoted post. Might've happened, I certainly don't remember all posts, but I doubt it.

    Religion is extremely harmful to society and I would personally prefer it be left behind as an artefact of more primitive times but you're still free to believe what you want.
    And I'm free to have an opinion on those beliefs or even the people that hold them, and yes, even to share it where appropriate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kohan
    As I recognize that the current popular "neo-feminist" insults men to the benefit of women, I have no desire whatsoever to be grouped with them.
    Men and transwomen.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashmada View Post
    Always irritate me, that attitude. "Look, it's ok to be an atheist, but please conceal yourself in the nearest closet."

    If you're open about your atheism, you're the new Pol Pot, apparently. Worst is that this very american view on atheism is starting to be exported this way through the internet.


    Look, trying to pass laws based on your religion is pushing your religion/irreligion on others.
    Assaulting others in accordance with your religious beliefs (e.g.: homophobic violence) is pushing your religion on others.
    Accosting a complete stranger in the street to proselytize is attempting to push your religion on others (but it's easily avoided).
    Sharing one's opinions about religion on a message board, in the very section reserved for those topics is not.

    I've never witnessed or heard of an atheist doing any of the 3 former actions, even the milder 3rd one (would be funny, tbh), save for the usual well-known "communist" regimes.

    I haven't seen anyone calling any religion stupid in this thread, either; at least prior to the quoted post. Might've happened, I certainly don't remember all posts, but I doubt it.

    Religion is extremely harmful to society and I would personally prefer it be left behind as an artefact of more primitive times but you're still free to believe what you want.
    And I'm free to have an opinion on those beliefs or even the people that hold them, and yes, even to share it where appropriate.



    Men and transwomen.
    Stereotype much. You have never heard of a militant atheist ?

  17. #117
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    Which stereotypes? Care to elaborate?

    And yes, I've heard that oxymoron quite often. That does not legitimise it.

  18. #118
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    there needs to be a bot on BG that observes these atheist/theist debates and then PMs everyone else who's posted in the thread when the topic shifts again.


    you guys literally just rehash the same shit over and over and over every time it comes up. no one ever changes their mind. nothing is accomplished. but you do it anyway.

  19. #119
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    These threads always make me miss neosutra

  20. #120
    You wouldn't know that though because you've demonstrably never picked up a book nor educated yourself on the matter. Let me guess, overweight housewife?
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    Was this posted?

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/20..._marriage.html

    Texas Republican (Who Might Be Lt. Gov. Soon) Accidentally Praises Gay Marriage Ruling
    By David Weigel

    Michael Li was quick enough to capture the typo of the day: A reaction from Texas state Sen. Dan Patrick, a serious candidate for lieutenant governor, to the district court's ruling against the state's gay marriage ban.



    The tweet was quickly deleted and replaced by a version that rectifies the gender. No harm, no foul. I generally don't go in for these quick-shot "politician you've never heard of says a thing" items, but Patrick was polling at 31 percent in the Texas Tribune's survey of the LG race. He's in a fantastic position to make the runoff and face a weakened Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst. Just two years ago, Patrick had backed Dewhurst in his primary against Ted Cruz, using his radio show to light into the candidate on Dewhurst's behalf. A year later Patrick was calling Cruz "Reaganesque" and a possible president. On and on the Texas GOP marches, until there's no more space left on the right.

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