Kansas Really Damn Close To Legalizing Anti-Gay Discrimination

[Kohan]

there needs to be a bot on BG that observes these atheist/theist debates and then PMs everyone else who's posted in the thread when the topic shifts again.

you guys literally just rehash the same shit over and over and over every time it comes up. no one ever changes their mind. nothing is accomplished. but you do it anyway.

There have been times where people's minds were affected during discussions, such as Acevalefor's in relation to the living wage, which happened after my lengthy conversation with Cream.

It is always worth doing if there is always the possibility of its making a difference.

[Ksandra]

Pretty sure Bane is specifically referring to religious debates. Considering there is all of like 5 of us who are religious, then ya I gotta agree with him that this is mostly just rehashing shit that isn't going to do anything.

[BaneTheBrawler]

yes, i'm referring specifically to religious debates. every other debate you'd be absolutely right, kohan. i've even changed my mind on a few things. but the religious debate is literally just the same argument over and over.

[Kohan]

Pretty sure Bane is specifically referring to religious debates. Considering there is all of like 5 of us who are religious, then ya I gotta agree with him that this is mostly just rehashing shit that isn't going to do anything.

I understood that he was. That would not change my response nor mindset in any way.

As I was raised to be religious, but rejected it wholesale—even after years of Bible readings, attending events, dealing with strictly conservative relatives, and more, I could not be convinced—and because I adhere to a lifestyle that respects scientific determination above all else, I cannot, by my nature, accept the notion of people being incapable of change. That, to me, is the equivalent of ceasing to care, and I will not do that.

[BaneTheBrawler]

nah, they're not incapable. but the "debate" that BG goes through every time it comes up certainly isn't going to change anyone's mind. it amounts to "religious people are dumb! this is why atheists hate them!" "no, this is why atheists hate them" "shut up atheists dont hate anybody!" "I BELIEVE IN GOD AND IM NOT DUMB FUCK YOU GUYS" "no, you're actually stupid" "yup stupid" "anecdotal evidence!" "NO HERES WHY IM NOT STUPID" "nope still stupid" "yup still stupid" "this is why atheists hate religious people" "no this is why atheists hate religious people" "shut up atheists dont hate anybody"

[Kohan]

I find it very unfortunate that you consider all of what we wrote to be that simple. I imagine it contributes to the generalizing viewpoint that started the responses in the first place.

[Ksandra]

nah, they're not incapable. but the "debate" that BG goes through every time it comes up certainly isn't going to change anyone's mind. it amounts to "religious people are dumb! this is why atheists hate them!" "no, this is why atheists hate them" "shut up atheists dont hate anybody!" "I BELIEVE IN GOD AND IM NOT DUMB FUCK YOU GUYS" "no, you're actually stupid" "yup stupid" "anecdotal evidence!" "NO HERES WHY IM NOT STUPID" "nope still stupid" "yup still stupid" "this is why atheists hate religious people" "no this is why atheists hate religious people" "shut up atheists dont hate anybody"

Pretty much what I see when these debates come up. It comes down to atheists thinking religious can't critically think for themselves. And religious saying "fuck off" I can't really think of any common poster who is a religious zealot. Egon and Varja(sp?) would have been the only two. And they never post.

But ya keep fighting the good fight on bg or w/e. The religious here are clearly destroying lives, clearly.

[kuronosan]

Your generalizations are pretty silly. You're confusing atheists with assholes.

[Ksandra]

You're confusing atheists with assholes.

This is bg after all...

but seriously just look at some of the statements:

As I got older I understood alot of that. That religion basically demands you not to think critically about things and because I couldn't go that direction I was never going to get it or to have that belief at all.

I'm fine being called a zealot about wanting people to learn critical thinking skills,

This way of thinking seem to be popping up more and more often around here. And the tone is usually about the "ignorant sheep believing in the spaghetti monster."

Why would anyone care to listen to that?

[Byrthnoth]

First off, don't insult my god (may his many noodly arms continue to do good for all time).

Secondly, if religious people were capable of thinking critically and then dealing with reality then they wouldn't be religious.

[Gredival]

Your generalizations are pretty silly. You're confusing atheists with assholes.

Same thing happens in every debate. The other side can't just be jerks, assholes, and cruel; they must necessarily be racist, sexist, or some other type of bigot.

We literally seem incapable of distinguishing between things we hate. So every religious person is a mindless sheep, every feminist is a raving lunatic, and so forth. The extremes of every subgroup become the exemplars.

[wipers]

Your generalizations are pretty silly. You're confusing atheists with assholes.

Nah you are talking about the same person.

[Roranora]

I'm so proud of the Kansas thread.

[hey]

There have been times where people's minds were affected during discussions, such as Acevalefor's in relation to the living wage, which happened after my lengthy conversation with Cream.

The same conversation changed my view on it too.

[archibaldcrane]

I'm an atheist and I am not particularly concerned with the beliefs of people who are religious. It is only the actions of people that concern me.

[ringthree]

yes, i'm referring specifically to religious debates. every other debate you'd be absolutely right, kohan. i've even changed my mind on a few things. but the religious debate is literally just the same argument over and over.

That's because at some point you can only speak fact to fiction so much.

Believe in what you want, I don't really care, but the religious debate is a one-sided affair in this forum. It's not like the gody's are quoting Thomas Aquinas or something.

I am strongly agnostic, and I still firmly believe there is no factual basis for religion.

[kuronosan]

Whether there is a factual basis for religion or not, it's not your place or anyone else's to tell someone they aren't allowed to believe a certain thing or are "a fool" for believing it.

I don't really know what to consider myself because I'm neither religious nor "agnostic". I believe if life was created then it was purely by someone else's accident whether by chance or by design. I don't believe in the Bible but I have read it. My views on religion have evolved significantly since I first started posting here.

However, in a logical way, I do firmly believe that if you walk around touting that people who hold religious values are stupid then you are honestly no better than religious folk who walk around touting that people who don't hold them are stupid.

Whether facts support religion or not, people are allowed to hold their own beliefs. It's when they try to use those beliefs to oppress, indoctrinate, suppress free will, or otherwise alter the course of humanity that I take issue. If being religious gives people a sense of unity and allows them to treat others great, then fine - whatever. I draw the line when you start "casting people into hell" or "trying to change laws to promote religious freedom" because let's be honest here - the majority of loud assholes that want "religious freedom" are the very same ones who, given the chance, would establish Christianity as a national religion, law, and way of life if you allowed them to. And that is the truth.

[Kohan]

I'm an atheist and I am not particularly concerned with the beliefs of people who are religious. It is only the actions of people that concern me.

Though I stated this too, it seems to have been overlooked. I would expect most rational atheists to feel the same.

By focusing on this as if it were a complete vilification of religion, Bane, Ksandra, and Aks are missing the point. If they can only see the responses as pure vitriol, I am disappointed.

I'm reminded of this story:

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/val...se_session.php

It was a beautiful, celebratory, and inclusive speech.

It was responded to with outrage, and a do-over was demanded.

[BaneTheBrawler]

your capacity to not-read never ceases to amaze me, kohan. i described several varying degrees of vitriol, none of them pure. most had a large infusion of self-righteousness and idiocy.

[hey]

I actually just assume that single thing that Bane posts is a joke.