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  1. #21

    Quote Originally Posted by SathFenrir View Post
    There's zero reason to not do as much damage as you can.

    Period.

    End of story.

    If you're not taxing your healers by wearing DPS accessories and you're still refusing to do it you are bad. Bad. Bad bad bad.

    Bad.
    I do have a question. If my going pure tank lets my healers DPS, wouldnt that be better than me trying to to DPS? Pretty sure my healers are going to get better use out of their MP through DPSing than healing my weak ass just because I'm trying to be a DPS.

    Personally, I've cleared all the content in this game as PLD with ease. If it's easy content, then that just means my healers are DPSing instead of me "taxing" them.

    Like I said, this is a question, not an argument. I have no idea what the DPS capabilities of a PLD are compared to a SCH.

  2. #22
    Old Odin
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    Seravi Edalborez
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    Titan

    I DPS SCH constantly with my coil static's WAR (who mainly does OT stuff). He's 30 STR and rocks i90 STR stuff for literally everything except Ifrit EX and (if we ever let him) T5 MT. On fights where we both have plenty of chances to unload (Garuda/Titan EX primarily), the two of us together can just edge out the top DPS (for lack of off the top of my head numbers). We kill EX primals with 2tank 2healer quick enough to make 1tank 1healer parties feel inadequate. He will typically do a bit more than me since he doesn't have to stop damage ever.

    Yeah we're like full i90 with Allagan weapons now, but he's been no trouble to heal. He doesn't respec 30 VIT for Ifrit, just puts on VIT accessories.

    Going STR spec shouldn't cause you to suddenly lose any fight unless your leftside gear is "subpar" and/or your healers sucks.

  3. #23
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seravi Edalborez View Post
    I DPS SCH constantly with my coil static's WAR (who mainly does OT stuff). He's 30 STR and rocks i90 STR stuff for literally everything except Ifrit EX and (if we ever let him) T5 MT. On fights where we both have plenty of chances to unload (Garuda/Titan EX primarily), the two of us together can just edge out the top DPS (for lack of off the top of my head numbers). We kill EX primals with 2tank 2healer quick enough to make 1tank 1healer parties feel inadequate. He will typically do a bit more than me since he doesn't have to stop damage ever.

    Yeah we're like full i90 with Allagan weapons now, but he's been no trouble to heal. He doesn't respec 30 VIT for Ifrit, just puts on VIT accessories.

    Going STR spec shouldn't cause you to suddenly lose any fight unless your leftside gear is "subpar" and/or your healers sucks.
    This.

    If a tank is dying it's because they don't know what they're doing or the healers suck.

  4. #24
    CoP Dynamis
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    Indomitable Will
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    Goblin
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    Ifrit

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaixin View Post
    On the flip side, if you ever wipe the group because you refused to wear your VIT accessories so that you could put out that sick nasty extra 20 dps, you are also bad.
    Also this, lol, I don't think anybody that is responding to this is having this issue though, and folks that are getting to the point of asking the "hmm, i think I've got too much VIT", are also likely not having this issue. Bad tanks are bad, from everything I've seen, all the VIT and parry in the world doesn't help them.

  5. #25
    Sea Torques
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    Jun 2007
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    Helmir Rainteau
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    Ultros
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    Phoenix

    Pretty much what other people have said. Just start with full vit stuff and scale down from there as comfortable. You will probably feel fine in the crafted i70 stuff.

  6. #26
    Professional Lurker
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    Braxton Ryker
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    Excalibur

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaixin View Post
    On the flip side, if you ever wipe the group because you refused to wear your VIT accessories so that you could put out that sick nasty extra 20 dps, you are also bad.
    It's definitely more than 20DPS. And like everyone here has said, that much HP on WAR isn't needed unless the tank doesn't know what they're doing or your healers are bad. I admit I was skeptical to try the 30str allocate and build, and so where my healers but it's muuuuuch easier than we imagined and the difference is ridiculous. I'm killing the snake on T1 with STR build and SCH DoT before they kill the 2nd snake and we're switching at 10%ish. Poppin IB's for 900-1.1k, it's crazy

  7. #27
    RIDE ARMOR
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    Interesting discussion. Of course it makes sense that some content really doesn't need max hp/mitigation and in that case throw on your best DPS stuff, while other content you're going to take hits within an inch of your life and need every shred of hp you can get. The i70 is meant as a middle of the road, always have a decent level of both DPS and hp, and my thoughts were that it could probably be used effectively in almost every situation.

    I edited my OP. Here's comparing an i90 set (3 allagan, 2 hero's) to melded i70 DPS gear. This is after cancelling out the equivalent stats.

    i90 tank gear: 25 VIT, 20 Parry

    VS

    i70 DPS gear: 45 STR, 45 DEX, 19 Acc, 28 Det, 7 crit, 7 SkillSpd


    I guess I just have a hard time seeing the value of a little extra VIT. If it increased your defense somehow, sure, but it doesn't. It just adds hp and hp on natural regen ticks. Seems more like insurance than anything else, against those times where you fall below 375 hp and survive to be cured. Whereas the damage stats are always helping to kill things faster and build more hate.


    I'd throw in a comparison to i90 DPS accessories, but there are quite a few to pick from. The most telling comparison is that the ACC level of the i70 is naturally very high and should compare well to i90. The i90 will have a 20 STR advantage. If someone wants to add their i90 DPS stuff up to compare, this is the stat total of how I'd meld the i70 gear for tank use. There's a little flexibility on crit/det/skillspd.

    STR: 45
    DEX: 45
    VIT: 50
    Acc: 57
    Parry: 60
    Det: 28
    Crit: 18
    SkillSpd: 18

  8. #28
    Ridill
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkaine23 View Post
    Interesting discussion. Of course it makes sense that some content really doesn't need max hp/mitigation and in that case throw on your best DPS stuff, while other content you're going to take hits within an inch of your life and need every shred of hp you can get. The i70 is meant as a middle of the road, always have a decent level of both DPS and hp, and my thoughts were that it could probably be used effectively in almost every situation.

    I edited my OP. Here's comparing an i90 set (3 allagan, 2 hero's) to melded i70 DPS gear. This is after cancelling out the equivalent stats.

    i90 tank gear: 25 VIT, 20 Parry

    VS

    i70 DPS gear: 45 STR, 45 DEX, 19 Acc, 28 Det, 7 crit, 7 SkillSpd


    I guess I just have a hard time seeing the value of a little extra VIT. If it increased your defense somehow, sure, but it doesn't. It just adds hp and hp on natural regen ticks. Seems more like insurance than anything else, against those times where you fall below 375 hp and survive to be cured. Whereas the damage stats are always helping to kill things faster and build more hate.


    I'd throw in a comparison to i90 DPS accessories, but there are quite a few to pick from. The most telling comparison is that the ACC level of the i70 is naturally very high and should compare well to i90. The i90 will have a 20 STR advantage. If someone wants to add their i90 DPS stuff up to compare, this is the stat total of how I'd meld the i70 gear for tank use. There's a little flexibility on crit/det/skillspd.

    STR: 45
    DEX: 45
    VIT: 50
    Acc: 57
    Parry: 60
    Det: 28
    Crit: 18
    SkillSpd: 18
    DEX increases your parry and shield block rate, thus effectively increasing your defense.

    This is not an argument for using i70 accessories, just an argument against you saying "if it increased your defense somehow, sure"

  9. #29
    RIDE ARMOR
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    I was talking about VIT. If VIT did something more tangible in the defense department I would consider it a better friend or something. I find it hard to consider VIT the best choice compared to nearly double as much STR and DEX, while still getting a good amount of VIT . This seems like a good way to make a compromise in favor of doing better damage in situations when you know you'll be ok without the extra hp.

    Obviously VIT is incredibly valuable to jobs that are constantly absorbing damage. I'm not trying to say its weak, just that I think there's room to make some trade offs in most content and the i70 accessories provide a much better trade off than anything else because you can have about equivalent mitigation, 2/3 of the VIT, good acc, and pickup the extra DPS stats compared to using i90.

  10. #30
    green jellybean
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    This is a really great discussion. I am in the process of gearing my tank but was still wearing DL earring and neck. I didn't consider wearing dps accessories in those slots til now and have swapped to allagan maiming neck and ear for the time being. Seem to be doing fine enough with my group, hopefully I'll get allagan tank jewelry soon!