Relic armor upgrades discussion

[Byrthnoth]

Flaming Crush is a 3-hit hybrid WS, similar to Jinpu or Chi. So:
First hit - 6 fTP physical, 6 fTP magical (You can think of it like an en-effect that mirrors the damage of the physical hit)
Second hit - 1 fTP physical
Third hit - 1 fTP physical

The first hit's physical and magical components share the same pDIF, so if it crits then you get a massive damage increase (see above). The Magic component is affected by MAB, so you can amplify it with all the readily available Avatar MAB gear and more than double your damage.

[Tachi]

Are you sure about the number of physical hits? The TP return shows 2 hits and it takes 2 shadows on Utsusemi.

[Byrthnoth]

Hmm... the description says 3 hits. Perhaps they're counting the magical hit as one "hit." SE was never big on consistency, after all.

[Sechs]

Hmm... the description says 3 hits. Perhaps they're counting the magical hit as one "hit." SE was never big on consistency, after all.

Yeah I always thought it was 2 hits too, one physical and one magical.
Altough my idea was wrong... so basically it's two physical hits with the first of them having a magical additional effect.
And this additional effect alone is "stronger" than the 2 physical hits?

Well, it used to be so before SE patched avatars, but is this still the case or should we just focus on physical? Or maybe use a third set which is a mixture of magical and physical...

[Byrthnoth]

I do not have Nirvana and find magic BPs still do better damage on average to things above EM. To trash, Flaming Crush all the way.

[Sechs]

magic BPs still do better damage

Implying you tested after the latest patch as well?

Flaming Crush all the way.

Do you still gear with Magical, Physical or a mixed set?
Atm I only have 3 sets for my post-BP SMN: Magical, Physical, Skill.

[kenshyn]

Yes, Ifrit can do some impressive damage.
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps640b9292.jpg
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q...psf0b1b7e6.jpg
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps12aa0bcb.jpg
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps41b3ebcf.jpg
Predator Claw is better but magic pacts are usually still superior.

Any chance you could share your set for these numbers?

[dasva]

Yeah I always thought it was 2 hits too, one physical and one magical.
Altough my idea was wrong... so basically it's two physical hits with the first of them having a magical additional effect.
And this additional effect alone is "stronger" than the 2 physical hits?

Well, it used to be so before SE patched avatars, but is this still the case or should we just focus on physical? Or maybe use a third set which is a mixture of magical and physical...

Generally on hybrid attacks it does seem to list them as 2 hits so I'd guess 3 hits here really means 2 physical 1 magical. Technically the magical effects aren't stronger per se on hybrids. Normally the dmg for the magical part is some percentage of the physical hits dmg. With 300% tp being all of it. But then is modded by magic. Normally that isn't enough to make them worthwhile but when you can do something like brew or in smn case first hit is pretty good by itself and then can pump 300 mab into 2nd it's nice. Basically the magic part of a hybrid is good because it uses the pdif AND MAB multipliers. It's not smn I know but you should see the craziness that is thf using sata+ hybrid with decent chunks of mab

[pancakesandsex]

Generally on hybrid attacks it does seem to list them as 2 hits so I'd guess 3 hits here really means 2 physical 1 magical. Technically the magical effects aren't stronger per se on hybrids. Normally the dmg for the magical part is some percentage of the physical hits dmg. With 300% tp being all of it. But then is modded by magic. Normally that isn't enough to make them worthwhile but when you can do something like brew or in smn case first hit is pretty good by itself and then can pump 300 mab into 2nd it's nice. Basically the magic part of a hybrid is good because it uses the pdif AND MAB multipliers. It's not smn I know but you should see the craziness that is thf using sata+ hybrid with decent chunks of mab

Tell me more.... What hybrid ws are you referring to specifically?

[Tachi]

My Flaming Crush set is naturally MAB oriented but I chose to use Spurrina Gages/Ngen Seraweels instead of Hagondes and I have Nirvana/Seraphicaller. Without crits my average are around 12-15k on Eft/Chapuli, 24-27k on DL, the 18k wasn't a crit on Peiste.

[Kyte]

Tell me more.... What hybrid ws are you referring to specifically?

Flaming Crush is a 3-hit hybrid WS, similar to Jinpu or Chi.

those, plus Blade: To. I forget if there are any others (maybe Kagero?).

[dasva]

Tell me more.... What hybrid ws are you referring to specifically?

If you mean my general talk that was general hybrids. If you meant on thf they get no native ones so that basically means you basically need to use an all jobs weapon you have no skill in. Which also means horribly low base dmg when not using sata. So it's mostly at least for right now brew fun times. But I was able to get 99999 blade teki lol. Which is a fairly crappy ws but with extra base dmg from sata and crit hit and crit dmg and ice affinity and tons of mab it ends up being even better than wf brewed at least for that 1 hit. Most of kat/gkt element ones are hybrid.

I think rlb and Seraph Blade are basically hybrid versions of the pure magic burning/Shining Blade so could still use a half way decent weapon that way I suppose

[Kyte]

Again, you mean Blade: To (although I'm not 100% sure as to whether Teki is or isn't as well). And no, Red Lotus Blade and Seraph are just normal elemental WS.

[Byrthnoth]

Flaming Arrow and Hot Shot are two other hybrid WSs.

[dasva]

Again, you mean Blade: To (although I'm not 100% sure as to whether Teki is or isn't as well). And no, Red Lotus Blade and Seraph are just normal elemental WS.

Yeah I meant To though chi also worked well. Pretty sure Teki isn't. Well then maybe it's the other way around and flaming/shining are? Bah I'm sure I tested it at some point and one set was hybrid and the other magical despite it not having the traditional 2 hit description

[Kyte]

Double checking these things feels a lot like this:




Burning/RLB/Shining/Seraph are definitely all just normal elemental WS.

[pancakesandsex]

If you mean my general talk that was general hybrids. If you meant on thf they get no native ones so that basically means you basically need to use an all jobs weapon you have no skill in. Which also means horribly low base dmg when not using sata. So it's mostly at least for right now brew fun times. But I was able to get 99999 blade teki lol. Which is a fairly crappy ws but with extra base dmg from sata and crit hit and crit dmg and ice affinity and tons of mab it ends up being even better than wf brewed at least for that 1 hit. Most of kat/gkt element ones are hybrid.

I think rlb and Seraph Blade are basically hybrid versions of the pure magic burning/Shining Blade so could still use a half way decent weapon that way I suppose

Yeah I meant specifically for thf. I didn't think they had any. I didn't realize you meant just for fun with brew.

[Seol]

Does the call beast +2 on Ankusa gloves counts towards the iLVL119 cap on mainhand? In other words, does that makes your pets iLVL 121 (The ones that have or will have a cap beyond 119) or is that just a SMN thing onry atm ?

[Seol]

Went out and called Kiyomaro with ilvl 119 axe/naked, then axe+gloves, /checkparam didn't change. I guess we are stuck with 119 pets, so what exactly "Call Beast +2" does? gives you +2 lvls if you use anything under ilvl117?

[Byrthnoth]

Without AF2 gloves, your pets spawn 0-2 levels below you. With AF2 gloves, your pets spawn 0-1 levels below you. With AF2+2 gloves (or better), your pets spawn at your level. So Call Beast +2 makes it so that pets spawn at your level instead of up to 2 levels below you.