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  1. #21

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    the East is largely composed of Eastern Orthodox Moscow Patriarchy Russian-speakers (Yanukovich for example speaks Ukrainian badly with a thick Russian accent) while the west is mostly Greek Catholic/Kiev Patriarchy Ukrainian-speakers

    but the religious situation isn't so black and white, the leader of the Eastern Orthodox Church is a fierce Ukrainian nationalist and far less supportive of Russia than Moscow would like, while the Greek Catholics are Orthodox in style and substance despite acknowledging the divine supremacy of Rome

    and despite the language divide it's a fairly homogeneous society, only about 20% of Ukrainians are ethnically something besides Ukrainian

    the internal fault lines are there, but they are not anywhere near the same magnitude as what existed in say Syria or Yugoslavia, these protests are more about terrible governance than anything else. Yanukovych accepting Putin's blatant bribe was the last straw for an administration that had jailed political opponents and engaged in widespread graft and corruption

  2. #22

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    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...raine-2004.jpg

    that about sums up the internal division. civil war was never very likely but it will be interesting to see if the nation can avoid a political separation in the long-term if it keeps getting tug and warred between Russia and the E.U.

  3. #23
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    The vast majority are "ethnic Ukrainian" with the largest "minority" being "ethnic Russian". Combined they are over 90% of the population.

    They are actually a majority non-religious (remember the Soviet Union squashed religion pretty well) and the 35% or so that are religious are almost entirely Christian/Catholic of various sects.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Ukraine

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tajin View Post
    What is truly surprising is that it was less chaotic than what happened in Egypt, or maybe it just got less coverage because the left-overs of "fuck communists" mentality.
    Well, Ukraine has been a democracy for a couple decades longer than Egypt, which likely helped.

  5. #25
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    Looks like things are still potentially going to get crazier over there: http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/26/world/...aine-politics/

    The southern region has lots of ethnic Russians and Russian-speaking ethnic Ukrainians, who want to side with Russia and are apparently discussing a potential secession from the Ukraine(not sure if they'd be seeking autonomy or to be folded back into Russia). Meanwhile, Russia has started doing military drills near the border, calling them "combat-readiness checks", and has declared the Ukrainian opposition as 'a threat to Russia and Russian interests'. I have no idea if they're contemplating some sort of invasive movement there or what.

    I also heard some NPR reports about propaganda in the already pro-Russia eastern and southern regions where the Kiev opposition was labeled as fascists and/or neo-Nazis, and people were being told that they intended to come spread violence to the south. They were saying that southerners were building barricades in fear that they were about to be invaded by the opposition protesters.

    In the background of all of this is the fact that Ukraine is nearly bankrupt and severely needs a bailout from either the EU or Russia.

  6. #26
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    IMF, WB, EU and US have already pledged to cover anything they need.

    It's weird right now, but you can't run the Ukraine from Russia. Russia will saber-rattle for while, but won't do anything. The Ukraine is not Georgia. I don't see a civil war or anything like that in the future, but lets see where this goes.

    While there are many, many downward pressures on an actual conflict ever erupting (economics, location, the way the gov't collapsed, etc), this is one of the few places in the world that would put all of the western nations in direct conflicting interest with Russia on a global scale. That said if the Ukraine breaks free from Russia and goes western, this could force Russias to stop being the huge global douche they have been recently because they would no longer have a buffer with the Ukraine and could lose access to the Crimea. Putin has to play this very very carefully and he has very few cards in his hand in this situation.

  7. #27
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    You realize that the only global douche has been Putin and his administration and not all Russians, right? The majority of Russians don't even LIKE Putin. Like here in the United States, conservative Russians like that he is looking out for their interests and could really give two shits what he stands for from a political standpoint.

  8. #28
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    Yet they keep voting him in?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuronosan View Post
    You realize that the only global douche has been Putin and his administration and not all Russians, right? The majority of Russians don't even LIKE Putin. Like here in the United States, conservative Russians like that he is looking out for their interests and could really give two shits what he stands for from a political standpoint.
    As for being a global douche, it is completely irrelevant if the people don't support Putin.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by archibaldcrane View Post
    Yet they keep voting him in?
    Isn't that what we do here? People rarely vote in the public interest anymore.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuronosan View Post
    Isn't that what we do here? People rarely vote in the public interest anymore.
    Doesn't Putin just fix the polls and get dead people to vote for him?

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ringthree View Post
    IMF, WB, EU and US have already pledged to cover anything they need.

    It's weird right now, but you can't run the Ukraine from Russia. Russia will saber-rattle for while, but won't do anything. The Ukraine is not Georgia. I don't see a civil war or anything like that in the future, but lets see where this goes.

    While there are many, many downward pressures on an actual conflict ever erupting (economics, location, the way the gov't collapsed, etc), this is one of the few places in the world that would put all of the western nations in direct conflicting interest with Russia on a global scale. That said if the Ukraine breaks free from Russia and goes western, this could force Russias to stop being the huge global douche they have been recently because they would no longer have a buffer with the Ukraine and could lose access to the Crimea. Putin has to play this very very carefully and he has very few cards in his hand in this situation.
    Based on how pro-Russian Crimea is, I would definitely not see Russia losing access to it before Crimea made a major push to become autonomous if not outright folded into Russia.

    Also mixing things up now is that Yanukovich is reportedly near Moscow now, while having international warrants out for his arrest. I don't really see Russia extraditing him, so I'm curious as to where that's going to go.

  13. #33

    Quote Originally Posted by Acevalefor View Post
    Doesn't Putin just fix the polls and get dead people to vote for him?
    Even zombies know now to fuck with him.

  14. #34
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    Armed separatist militia(possibly Russian troops operating unofficially) in Crimea has now taken over the Crimean parliament building and civilian airport: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...0eb_story.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Callisto View Post
    Armed separatist militia(possibly Russian troops operating unofficially) in Crimea has now taken over the Crimean parliament building and civilian airport: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...0eb_story.html
    'separatist militia' in full military uniform with modern equipment...

    lol, they're russian soldiers. welcome to the USSR

  16. #36

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    yeah, someone cue the 'that escalated quickly' meme.

  17. #37
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    Russia is just on a high after winning the most medals in the Olympics, it'll pass.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by mallister View Post
    yeah, someone cue the 'that escalated quickly' meme.

  19. #39

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    WELL NOW.

  20. #40
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    Thats just an old training exercise from last year (funnily enough, on the Crimean peninsula).

    But it's still relevant.