Power Creep

[Kincard]

So what MMO are you comparing it to that had an incredible bounty of new content added in the first 6 months after release?

Funny enough, I was trying to think of a recent subscription MMO aside from WoW (because I feel like comparing things to WoW wouldn't really be fair since they have like a gajillion dollars at this point, but even they bleed the shit out of subs during the dead times of their patches, like right now during the twilight days of Pandaria), and I realize I keep thinking of FTP or games that went FTP, or worse, actually expired (TOR, GW2, Rift, Warhammer, STO). That might actually be more damning. *shrugs*

[Crescendo]

On the subject of gear progression, didn't Yoshi-P already state in an interview sometime a while back that right now they are simply laying the foundation for balance before they start adding the more interesting pieces of equipment? Something along the lines of how they didn't want to start adding a flurry of unique effects to equipment this early in the games lifespan, before being certain that the jobs were balanced properly.

I think I might be confusing it with something else though, since I'm not finding it through google-fu

I agree with a lot of people though, and I really do hope that they start adding more varieties of gear to choose while remaining on the same ilvl line and avoiding power creep as much as possible (though the fact that the ilvl display in your character panel is 4 digits long does not bode well...).

If 2.2/2.3 ends up bringing the new AF2/3 Armor Sets which end up being IDENTICAL to your Job Myth Sets but instead have +3 to all listed stats, it'll get old... real fast.

[Kaisha]

Not that it means anything, but if you set up a party finder recruitment it lets you enter an ilevel requirement up to 200.

It already says a lot when the iLvl display on your equipment screen has 4 digit places.

[Tymon]

Well unfortunately, with how they've done the 3 and out debuff system, a proc weapon could do more harm than good.

Example: blind weapon on titan hm so you can't flash MB. Stun weapon with lower duration than sb / bs on dreadknights, etc etc.

Realistic proc weapons would be nice like add effect: dark damage, etc, but they'd only proc on AA so a small gain to about 30% of your dps.

But yes, we need more stats. I'd give up like 60 crit for aetherflow -5 seconds or some shit.

Last page but I should mention this.

These kinds of stats were in the game once. For some reason they were incredibly turned off at the concept. They told everyone they would never imtroduce stats like that on gear ever again. So, probably out of luck.

[Kalmado]

Interesting video. Of course thought of XI and it makes perfect sense. I can't help but wonder if XIV will be the same down the road, but my approach this time is to not worry so much about the gear and to try and enjoy the game for what it is.

[Sho]

Too much FFXI reminiscing going on in here. Ronin had the right of it earlier in the thread -- Yoshi-P has been pushing the fact that the game is all about vertical progression now instead of horizontal progression. Progression similar to a pyramid. FFXI only held so much retention because most people playing it (including myself) became gear mongers and hoarders because of the content being decently challenging and very unrelenting with the RNG drops. Also the plethora of sidegrades which was usually geared towards a WS or two (or three).

Stop getting attached to your gear, it won't mean shit a couple of months down the road in FFXIV. Instead focus on ways to stay ahead of the curve who will obtain your now outdated gear months late instead. I went into this game with that mindset, and I feel tons better for it, lol.

[BerenTebogo]

I think it's unreasonable to expect people to not get attached to their gear. It's something they worked hard for, and is, in many cases the primary reason people play these games at all.

Achievement points which can't be used for anything / viewed / have zero point don't fix things. If there was something to do with achievements so maybe we could cast aside the gear more easily, fine. But I think the model of a whole new world every 6 months is pretty shit.

[Kincard]

Well, even if gear doesn't keep its relevancy gameplay-wise, other things can still encourage people that get attached to their stuff. Vanity systems are the obvious (meaning you should never reuse unique models). Titles/Achievements for beating something before x date (matters a lot less if they don't let you display your title though). Other games have used stuff like this to varying success.

[Amiricle]

I was, and still am, disappointed in the materia system. All gear should have materia slots, though perhaps only crafted gear be convertible. They could have used materia to allow this customisation & diversity with ones that gave different effects such as 'stun duration +0.5 seconds' or 'aertherflow recast -1' etc or even like in FF7 where you could gain whole new abilities and kept the other stats on gear as is as a you must be this ilvl to ride check.

[Sho]

I think it's unreasonable to expect people to not get attached to their gear. It's something they worked hard for, and is, in many cases the primary reason people play these games at all.

Achievement points which can't be used for anything / viewed / have zero point don't fix things. If there was something to do with achievements so maybe we could cast aside the gear more easily, fine. But I think the model of a whole new world every 6 months is pretty shit.

It's true. Some people should feel justified in getting attached to some pieces of gear. However, it's no where as near as hard as it was in FFXI (again as reference).

I remember about three weeks ago I was playing on my friend's server and one of his FC mates was basically shoving down people's throats the fact that he finally got his 8th Relic in game. Like wannabe hardcore status. Of course he plays the game almost day and night and the content is geared towards iLvl70 minimum, not a hard feat for anyone to do. However dat attachment and gloating, highly unnecessary. Even so it's gear that's 3 times removed from absolute top gear of the current endgame. He also started going on about how mad he is that relic is going to be "outdated." Shit like that.

Vanity solves the problem of seeming "Power Creep" -- or it's supposed to cloak the idea of it, at least. Have high level gear, but look as fabulous as you want in older gear that looks more awesome. Should be enough.

[BerenTebogo]

It's true. Some people should feel justified in getting attached to some pieces of gear. However, it's no where as near as hard as it was in FFXI (again as reference).

I remember about three weeks ago I was playing on my friend's server and one of his FC mates was basically shoving down people's throats the fact that he finally got his 8th Relic in game. Like wannabe hardcore status. Of course he plays the game almost day and night and the content is geared towards iLvl70 minimum, not a hard feat for anyone to do. However dat attachment and gloating, highly unnecessary. Even so it's gear that's 3 times removed from absolute top gear of the current endgame. He also started going on about how mad he is that relic is going to be "outdated." Shit like that.

Vanity solves the problem of seeming "Power Creep" -- or it's supposed to cloak the idea of it, at least. Have high level gear, but look as fabulous as you want in older gear that looks more awesome. Should be enough.

There's also stuff that people have a right to be upset about though:

Personal example: Girlfriend has been with me since first T5 clear of the group, genuinely loves the fight, and loves the shit out of MNK. Our T5 group has gotten 4 BLM scepters, 3 DRG weapons, and an assortment of other shit but never any H2H or MNK body. Yes she got the 2nd BLM weapon, yes she enjoys using it, but the chances are she'll never get to use her Allagan Bagnahks before they become completely irrelevant despite working as hard as anyone else in a T5 clear group for them.

6 months when dealing with weekly lockout RNG is such a short time that it is still completely within the realm of possibility that someone can get the complete shit end of the RNG stick despite being at the forefront of groups on their server.

Yes, getting attached to relics is silly, getting attached to Primal weapons is silly, but Tyche just got the first WHM Allagan body to drop for our coil group since the 3rd week of the game. I think that's something that he would have a right to be attached to, you know?

tl;dr: Stuff you can quest with no downtime, stuff you can farm uninterrupted, and stuff you can choose from a list what you'd like to get I can understand not getting attached to. RNG stuff with a lockout has an air of ye olde Ridill to it.

[AidenCarby]

Been clearing 1-4 since October and still no healing body, if the thing decides to drop at some point I'm wearing the fuck out of it until the end of forever. I'd imagine the shitty itemization in this game is only going to add to gear attachment.

[Kelenae]

My coil group has yet to see caster body drop while it has dropped 5-6 times in our other groups in our FC.

[Sephiroth]

Yeah that's my main problem with the loot in this game. The better stuff comes from Coil and rightly so, but the RNG screws you over so you end up with the shitty looking myth gear before you get the allagan. Coil needs to drop tokens for Coil gear. I don't think 200 allagan tokens per week is too much to ask for, it's half a piece of loot at best, quarter at worse. Even better take out the chests, drop more tokens and let people buy what the fuck they want from their hard earned allagan tokens.

A game where loot lasts 6 months max shouldn't be dealing with weekly one chance RNG. I'll be raging if BLM AF2 or whatever it's called in 2.2 is just another slightly different coloured version of the last two sets. Vanity system should help get rid of ugly gear however.

[zsuper]

So what MMO are you comparing it to that had an incredible bounty of new content added in the first 6 months after release?

Lmao, 'an incredible bounty of new content.'

Yeah, we added terrible repetitive quests and cut scenes to pre-existing areas! Look at all of this content!
It took us longer to unlock Thornmarch than it did to clear all of the actual content released in 2.1.

We'll have to wait for 2.2 to see if they actually give us real raid content, or just another 30 minutes of meaningless trash and bosses with retard-friendly mechanics and recycled models.

[Lucavi]

I think it's unreasonable to expect people to not get attached to their gear. It's something they worked hard for, and is, in many cases the primary reason people play these games at all.

Achievement points which can't be used for anything / viewed / have zero point don't fix things. If there was something to do with achievements so maybe we could cast aside the gear more easily, fine. But I think the model of a whole new world every 6 months is pretty shit.

Then its either a system of companies knowing what's best for business or a system of companies not giving a fuck what people like you feel (not that what you feel is bad or wrong), or a mix of the two, because how many XI-horizontal-styled MMOs have we seen since 2004? Vertical works when it comes to the financial bottom line, and companies tend to stick with what works in that regard. The closest thing I can reasonably think of is possibly TESO, but even that's unconfirmed as its too new to tell.

That said, I agree with your points regarding a RNG-based system. We've got a career drg that still hasn't seen Drg hands drop from fucking T1, and we've cleared that since coil was a thing. Multiple TT clears, drops, yadda yadda, and this guy can't even catch a break with his drg hands. We've seen one allagan tank body, I think two mage legs and I'm not even sure if healer feet have dropped once, but do I want to be sitting around wearing this Allagan/AF2 Ilvl90 stuff for the next 6 years like with XI? Is my Allagan axe so hawt and badass that I'll be satisfied using it as BiS in 2018?

No attachment is so great that I want to use the same gear year after year. Six months may be a bit extreme, but XI was far too extreme on the opposite end, and we have no idea if ARR will follow an exact 6-months schedule.

[Tymon]

Six months is not extreme by WoW standard, which I guess you could say is extreme if you want, but you could just as easily say it's the standard and therefore cannot be either.

They release an expansion every two years (on average) and a major content patch every 6 months. There is absolutely nothing to indicate that they are not taking the exact same approach with this game, given they are already talking about an expansion to be released in late 2014, which is actually ahead of schedule for WoW's release cycle. The six month patch cycle is about on pace though; it's been eight months since this game came out. Maybe a little less.

[Nyanoko]

It's probably time to let go of the "my gear is my identity" XI mentality. Killing internet dragons (or other players) with your friends are what these games are about.

[Sho]

There's also stuff that people have a right to be upset about though:

Personal example: Girlfriend has been with me since first T5 clear of the group, genuinely loves the fight, and loves the shit out of MNK. Our T5 group has gotten 4 BLM scepters, 3 DRG weapons, and an assortment of other shit but never any H2H or MNK body. Yes she got the 2nd BLM weapon, yes she enjoys using it, but the chances are she'll never get to use her Allagan Bagnahks before they become completely irrelevant despite working as hard as anyone else in a T5 clear group for them.

6 months when dealing with weekly lockout RNG is such a short time that it is still completely within the realm of possibility that someone can get the complete shit end of the RNG stick despite being at the forefront of groups on their server.

Yes, getting attached to relics is silly, getting attached to Primal weapons is silly, but Tyche just got the first WHM Allagan body to drop for our coil group since the 3rd week of the game. I think that's something that he would have a right to be attached to, you know?

tl;dr: Stuff you can quest with no downtime, stuff you can farm uninterrupted, and stuff you can choose from a list what you'd like to get I can understand not getting attached to. RNG stuff with a lockout has an air of ye olde Ridill to it.

I hear you man. Gated Content + Bad RNG is still a bad combination, especially if you are at the top of the completionist curve as people who beat T5 consistently. The rules slightly change in your scenario then. That shit sucks (still haven't seen MNK pants myself, lol). Even so, it's a game who's focus shifts from gear to content clearing as the focus.

It's probably time to let go of the "my gear is my identity" XI mentality. Killing internet dragons (or other players) with your friends are what these games are about.

It's the long and short of it. Mentality should theoretically shift from gear to content clears. Pretty sure identities will continue to be formed by those who can consistently beat the highest level content in each patch (Like BG on Excalibur), while gear will become marginalized. I'm actually not worried about the itemization at all -- it's obvious that it's limited, simply because of the level cap. Same with the bonus attribute points we get.

[Alkimi]

There's also stuff that people have a right to be upset about though:

Personal example: Girlfriend has been with me since first T5 clear of the group, genuinely loves the fight, and loves the shit out of MNK. Our T5 group has gotten 4 BLM scepters, 3 DRG weapons, and an assortment of other shit but never any H2H or MNK body. Yes she got the 2nd BLM weapon, yes she enjoys using it, but the chances are she'll never get to use her Allagan Bagnahks before they become completely irrelevant despite working as hard as anyone else in a T5 clear group for them.

6 months when dealing with weekly lockout RNG is such a short time that it is still completely within the realm of possibility that someone can get the complete shit end of the RNG stick despite being at the forefront of groups on their server.

I think someone suggested a few weeks back on OF to implement a "Binds That Tie IV" achievement which just rewards a weapon of your choice. Say for 15 or 20 kills or something. 4 or 5 months of killing Twintania every week is enough, by that point you're just getting frustrated with RNG and weapons are dropping that will never get used.