Yoshida Press Interview with Dengeki Online (2/20)

[Elcura]

Fear is always going to be a factor in turning away players from tanking or healing. DPS just has so much less responsibility and it's easy to (as people say) get lost in a crowd. The only thing you can do to help that (which I've not given a lot of thought) is make the encounters easier on tanks. But I doubt real tanks would like that at all and this game is honestly easy enough as it is. Things need to get more complicated and difficult as they progress, not less. I can't imagine a new job would help with the fear factor unless it's totally OP--which isn't good--or just really effective and easy to play (ideal, but more unrealistic).

[Lyall]

I'm the exact opposite. I didn't start tanking for my group until recently but I studied the shit out of fights and did multiple DFs first to get real practice in so I didn't look like a total douche on my server.

There will always be exceptions. The folks who want to rise up will do so, but I'm talking about the folks who are gunshy enough that even fucking up DF turns them away. I've got nothing but my own experiences and speculation on that, but I think there's more in that category than yours. I fully realize I could be way off base on that.

[Lyall]

Fear is always going to be a factor in turning away players from tanking or healing. DPS just has so much less responsibility and it's easy to (as people say) get lost in a crowd. The only thing you can do to help that (which I've not given a lot of thought) is make the encounters easier on tanks. But I doubt real tanks would like that at all and this game is honestly easy enough as it is. Things need to get more complicated and difficult as they progress, not less. I can't imagine a new job would help with the fear factor unless it's totally OP--which isn't good--or just really effective and easy to play (ideal, but more unrealistic).

And this is exactly why we run aground on the role differentials. 4/8-player content is a bad skew when it's a known quantity in MMOs that DPS is the most popular pick.

Tangentially related to this topic is that I'd like to see every class ultimately end up with a split-job option like ACN/SCH+SMN. Having two roles branch from one base will at least give players the option to dabble. If I was a LOLDRGSOKEWL player who only leveled LNC, you're not only asking someone to nut up and take responsibility but also to level an entirely new class for something they may not like. Of course, then you could end up with even shittier tanks who don't know what the fuck because they leveled expressly as a DPS, but that detracts from my point so don't talk about it.

[OWS_Tonx]

I get what you're saying. In my old FC, note this was many months ago, we had a member who was always complaining we never let anybody else but our 2 best geared tanks tank so we agree that we could switch it up to give everyone some more excitement. He antes up to be one of the tanks so we start workin on his gear by gettin him relic, farmin DL with him, etc and when we're doing his relic he can't handle his shit on Chimera. Like he had some kinda mental break lol. whatever, we get through it and it we work our way to Garuda. Same shit. Fight got a little slippery because he couldnt control hate and he start freakin out and just leaves df mid fight before everyone has died. Some peopel just can't handle the stress. Like it's just vidya game, calm down. Who cares if you fuck up Garuda

[Lyall]

Yeah, it seems like there's some hard disconnect where "I need to silence Ram's Voice" becomes "OH GOD HE'S DOING SOMETHING WHAT IS IT WHAT IS IT IS THAT'S RAM'S VOICE WHICH BUTTON IS MY SILENCE AAAAAAAAHHHHHHROGBNOGBNLGL"

[Drai]

Leveling a new role can be scary, but not as scary, to me personally, as the thought of failing at my job.

I had never tanked in any MMO before leveling WAR in this game, it was a bit daunting at first, but advice from friends, and people on these forums, really helped a lot.

Honestly, fights in this game are like, 20% prep and 80% attitude, if you go in worried that you'll fail, than you're probably going to fail, but so what? If you can fail, but continue to try afterwards, and are willing to take criticism and advice, than you'll eventually succeed, and it feels a lot better winning content on roles that are outside your normal comfort zone than on roles you can play with your eyes closed lol, at least to me anyways :D

[OWS_Tonx]

Pretty much lol. We were on skype too and he gets mad amped for everything. "shit shit SHIT HE'S USING VOICE NOT ON MY WATCH MOTHAFUCKA SHIT HE GOT IT OFF"

[Raldo]

People make their tanks silence that stuff? Yuck.

[Kaslo]

People make their tanks silence that stuff? Yuck.

Honestly, once you are about a minute into that fight you could likely hold hate with autoattacks, so it's not -that- big of an issue. But yeah.

[Lyall]

Make? shit, I volunteer it. I take it personally when people assume they need 2 BRDs because something has a silence mechanic. That, plus those sweet sweet commendations from pointing out I'll silence Lunatic Voice.

[Intense]

I had quit WAR (which was the first job I leveled) just because I literally didn't want to be known as a shitty tank. I know that people run to the Internet to complain about their bad in-game interaction experiences and I really didn't want my name being put out there like that so having been a really great RDM in XI, I moved to SCH and felt a bit more comfortable in that role.

I've since returned to WAR and started practicing/gearing it and am now leveling PLD up but I can see how there is just a big subset of people who just will not tank period due to the other players (and especially the fucks who play this game).

[Lyall]

I had quit WAR (which was the first job I leveled) just because I literally didn't want to be known as a shitty tank. I know that people run to the Internet to complain about their bad in-game interaction experiences and I really didn't want my name being put out there like that so having been a really great RDM in XI, I moved to SCH and felt a bit more comfortable in that role.

Gentlemen, we have met the enemy, and he is us.

[Raldo]

Hey, if you're consciously aware that you're a shitty tank, more power to you for abandoning the role. Now, if you quit before you knew you were shitty for fear of ridicule... well, I guess you weren't cut out for the added stress of tanking anyway... or something.

[Elcura]

Having a shitty tank isn't bad, and it certainly won't get you called out on the internet unless you're an asshole about it. If you're a bad tank, ask why you're bad, apologize for being bad and try to get better. There's no way you can humiliate a bad player who is being understanding and patient, it has the opposite effect.

[Intense]

Hey, if you're consciously aware that you're a shitty tank, more power to you for abandoning the role. Now, if you quit before you knew you were shitty for fear of ridicule... well, I guess you weren't cut out for the added stress of tanking anyway... or something.

At the time, I knew I was really green to tanking period and I didn't really have the desire to get better. So knowing that, I didn't want to proceed and be trashed on the various forums.

The point of my post was I can get why there is a chunk of people who would be afraid of tanking for that reason and thus would never try it (which is valid I guess? Their 'whatever it is you're paying for this game' a month).

[Viena]

I would like to be enlightned on how destructive, utterly stupid, game breaking and significantly more easy for the tanks (or more stressing perhaps) it would be if the two new dungeons that they're introducing in 2.2 were to use groups of 6, instead of groups of 4 as announced. It sure does sound as it would be apocalypse-worthy material from what has been said in this thread so far.

We've already gone through most of this.

1) We know, nothing is going to change that.
2) See 1.
3) See 2.
4) New jobs!

For 4, nothing would change that except for new jobs. If people don't like the look and feel of tanks, making content that only allows 1 tank doesn't increase the number of people playing tanks, just the number of tanks you need overall. It could work either way if your problem is trying to alleviate the tanking shortage, but Viena has no idea what they're talking about.

Yet you still fail to realize how small of an impact point #4 would have on the general population a few weeks after the job's release where some people would level and a few experiment with it. We would likely be back to square one within 2 months. You overestimate the developer's capability of changing a player's mindset by encouraging them to play as tanks and refuse to see past that. Then you proceed to make up loosely founded arguments about how utterly inconceivable and ignorant making different design choices for new content would be. Because sticking to the unnecessarily long wait times that the current setups thus far offer to DPS sure is better than anything that could be done to change it in future content outside of a novelty value relief.

That's besides the fact that the new job argument seems to only work under the assumption of just a tank job being introduced. If new jobs are introduced for other roles alongside with it (which they eventually will) not only would that cease to be a hardly signigicant alleviation of the issue but possibly worsen it (particularly if such DPS roles are equally or more interesting/cool looking than whatever they introduce for tanks).

And this is exactly why we run aground on the role differentials. 4/8-player content is a bad skew when it's a known quantity in MMOs that DPS is the most popular pick.

This, a thousand times this. One doesn't have to be a psychic to realize that as Elcura claims.

[OWS_Tonx]

I had quit WAR (which was the first job I leveled) just because I literally didn't want to be known as a shitty tank. I know that people run to the Internet to complain about their bad in-game interaction experiences and I really didn't want my name being put out there like that so having been a really great RDM in XI, I moved to SCH and felt a bit more comfortable in that role.

I've since returned to WAR and started practicing/gearing it and am now leveling PLD up but I can see how there is just a big subset of people who just will not tank period due to the other players (and especially the fucks who play this game).

There's a huge difference between learning a job and doin what that dude in my post you linked was doing. What Elcura said sums it up perfectly. I also stated I don't usually trash players who are truly trying to improve themselves but when you run in with no gear and don't even flash when I ask you throughout the entire dungeon? c'mon. the fuckin' quests you do to get up to brayflox gives you gear, there is no excuse

Also, I've always silenced/stunned as PLD. Anytime I go to Ifrit or chim I let the other tank (if there is one) go DPS crazy because I can handle it myself.

[Elcura]

I would like to be enlightned on how destructive, utterly stupid, game breaking and significantly more easy for the tanks (or more stressing perhaps) it would be if the two new dungeons that they're introducing in 2.2 were to use groups of 6, instead of groups of 4 as announced. It sure does sound as it would be apocalypse-worthy material from what has been said in this thread so far.

This is ignoring that I don't disagree that having more diverse content with different ratios will help. If you want answers to the questions you've been repeating, just look at my older posts. You'll find them there if you can take the time to understand them rather than just plug your ears.

Yet you still fail to realize how small of an impact point #4 would have on the general population a few weeks after the job's release where some people would level and a few experiment with it. We would likely be back to square one within 2 months. You overestimate the developer's capability of changing a player's mindset by encouraging them to play as tanks and refuse to see past that. Then you proceed to make up loosely founded arguments about how utterly inconceivable and ignorant making different design choices for new content would be. Because sticking to the unnecessarily long wait times that the current setups thus far offer to DPS sure is better than anything that could be done to change it in future content outside of a novelty value relief.

I don't overestimate them on anything. Whether they succeed or fail at making a good new tank job is beside the point, like whether they succeed or fail at making diverse content. I didn't make up anything. You just seem to ignore that shit would have to change to accommodate for the differences, which could be done in several ways (some less destructive but far less interesting than others) but it would need to be done. Therefore if you add different ratios, you have to consider different ways to approach all fights not just as a player but as a designer. The more inconsistent they are and the longer they wait the worse off the game becomes.

I get the feeling you aren't even talking about FFXIV at this point. It's really strange.

That's besides the fact that the new job argument seems to only work under the assumption of just a tank job being introduced. If new jobs are introduced for other roles alongside with it (which they eventually will) not only would that cease to be a hardly signigicant alleviation of the issue but possibly worsen it (particularly if such DPS roles are equally or more interesting/cool looking than whatever they introduce for tanks).

But you fail to see, again, that with more jobs (especially more tanks and healers) content can become more flexible and players can be more flexible. Not mutually exclusive solutions, you're just covering your ears going LALALALA NEW JOBS NOPE, when the reality is they will, as well as diverse content. If you're arguing they should do diverse content first, who cares? Because both will help at the end of the day, regardless of whether you see one as the end all solution and one simply as a novelty (which, by the way, lol). We can simply disagree which should be done first (when realistically, they could be introduced at the same time).

DPS is always the most popular pick, nothing is going to get around that. You don't seem to get that the reason for having 2 tanks 2 healers, as well as 4 man content was for the casual player base. Which you want to deny as well because LALALA NOPE. That's your choice, doesn't bother me either way.

[Sephiroth]

I would tank more but like others put off by the playerbase. It's all good saying learn the fights as tank in DF and PF learning parties but when you can one shot it as a DPS that is an awful experience to go through considering nearly all these groups will struggle to get to the difficult parts of the fights eg past heart on Titan extreme. I'm not giving up on PLD however, I just concluded it's better to wait for a new patch and learn new content as a DPS and tank so there's none of that taking a big step back.

[Intense]

There's a huge difference between learning a job and doin what that dude in my post you linked was doing. What Elcura said sums it up perfectly. I also stated I don't usually trash players who are truly trying to improve themselves but when you run in with no gear and don't even flash when I ask you throughout the entire dungeon? c'mon. the fuckin' quests you do to get up to brayflox gives you gear, there is no excuse

Also, I've always silenced/stunned as PLD. Anytime I go to Ifrit or chim I let the other tank (if there is one) go DPS crazy because I can handle it myself.

It was just the most recent example I could think of to reference back to. It wasn't any criticism on you as I know it is more of an extreme example, but an example nonetheless.