Paladin VS Warrior : Battle of the Off Tank DPS

[Kirbyprime]

Yeah, I can force out higher iLevel but I don't have allagan helm/pants so it wouldn't be pure i90. Weapon wise I don't have any i90 that gives the same stats for both so I had to use lower level weapons for the comparison.

[OWS_Tonx]

If he's putting up storms eye combo then by default he is using maim

I want to point out also from earlier in this thread Inner Beast, even when used inside Defiance, doesn't suffer the Defiance dmg reduction so using unchained with it by itself doesn't actually do anything unless you're saving zerk for it, which I do

EDIT: To get a a true comparison is difficult because PLD and WAR aren't going to have the same stats, right now you're just analyzing like pound for pound who's better. The lowest legitimate parse I've seen (ps3 player here) of my WAR in Defiance was 120 in CT

[Kirbyprime]

So after some testing on alternate gear sets I noticed that ACT was bleeding other people's fights into my own for some reason. I redid the tests making sure I was alone. The results are somewhat surprising so I'll definitely be doing more tests to make sure they're accurate.

In the meantime, anyone want to give me the optimal WAR rotation? My current one has the pro of being low on the stress meter as it's only 7 buttons to click max which is similar to my posted PLD rotation which comes in at 6.

[OWS_Tonx]

If you're shooting straight damage with no defiance I'd lead with fracture, then storms eye combo, berserk + inner release, butchers combo, rinse repeat while throwing in brutal swing when you can. Obv it'll be different if you're tanking or OTing as you'll keep storm's path up too

[Kaixin]

Maim/Storm's Eye up 24/7, one BB to one Storm's Eye. Berserk, IR, Brutal Swing on cooldown. Timing Berserk such that you can fit in as many hard hitters as possible is ideal. Reapply Fracture whenever it falls off. Frac is 30 seconds but the biggest potency/GCD so you want to use it when you're buffed, not before. Basically, standard DPS rules apply.

The ideal scenario for WAR OT DPS undoubtedly involves tricky usage of Defiance, Unchained, Berserk, Vengeance to take advantage of the crit buff, as well as Inner Beast, but is as practical in a real fight as is my favorite PLD DPS combo: provoke->HG->bulwark->shield swipe. So I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Edited to remove incorrect information.

[Raldo]

Two BB's to one storm's eye will do the trick.

I think you actually get more damage if you do 1 Storms Eye, 1 BB, repeat. I could be wrong though, I don't remember how long the GCD is at 50.

[Gokku]

not perfect but the order i use is :
heavy > Maim > internal release > eye > zerk > fracture > heavy > sunder > block > heavy > maim> eye > heavy > sunder > block > fracture *repeat* Bolded part is based on fractures timer , some rotations youll be able to toss in heavy > maim> eye > then fracture as it wears off , other times you dont get a chance to.

parsed this again today in i86*missing legs* right and i78 acc's and got up to 314dps and then stabilized out at 230

this is a rotation that nets me about 210dps and works fine for tanking

[Raldo]

I think you'd get more bang for your buck if you used Zerk before Eye.

I do exactly as the above poster, except I shove IR + Zerk in the same window.

[Kaixin]

I think you actually get more damage if you do 1 Storms Eye, 1 BB, repeat. I could be wrong though, I don't remember how long the GCD is at 50.

Absolutely right, thanks for the correction. My mistake.

[Kirbyprime]

Yeah, my default 2 combos I was using on WAR has to do with SE > BB being the so called DPS combo on non-endgame fights with a OT whereas SE > SP was on fights that required the extra 10% reduction.

[ZarakiKujata]

LolWarriors || LolPaladins >LolDRG in deeps.

Fuck you pal.

And you should be using Fractures in the testing because I've ripped hate in Sword Oath from wars just John Maddening Halone and because it would be in a WAR OTs rotation given the 30sec duration.

[Seravi Edalborez]

From: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1857709

Max hate: SE > BB > BB > BB
Max damage: SE > BB
Minimum enmity OT: SP > SE

And some other stuff that isn't totally relevant to OT test.

If we're talking a fight with tank swaps (which will be the foreseeable future), Zerk is advised by the same poster to be paired with Unchained always:

You actually don't want to use Berserk on CD because it ends up contributing less over time than if you only use it once every 120 seconds while you've got Unchained. The reason for this is pretty simple: the 33% damage increase from Unchained balances out the loss of contribution from artificially increasing the CD by 33% (90->120) but it also reduces the loss in damage from the Pacification effect from it by 33% for the same reason.

[OWS_Tonx]

I didn't know the DoT effect of Fracture worked off of the initial buffs it was used with, I'll have to rework when I use it now. I glanced over the thread before, but without fully checking out how he recommends using it, I generally go:

heavy - maim - storms eye - heavy - unchained/zerk - sunder - vengeance/internal release - butchers - heavy - maim - inner beast - infuriate - inner beast - storms eye

and from there you can usually get in another 2 WS's if you're fast enough, may need some reworking now that I know about fracture. Using that though spikes my enmity like nobodys business and you can easily crit for over 1k on those butchers and inner beasts

[Raineer]

Fuck you pal.

And you should be using Fractures in the testing because I've ripped hate in Sword Oath from wars just John Maddening Halone and because it would be in a WAR OTs rotation given the 30sec duration.

Hate is never taken, or surpassed. It is always RIPPED.

[Kaixin]

Hate is never taken, or surpassed. It is always RIPPED.

Amen.

From: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1857709

Max hate: SE > BB > BB > BB
Max damage: SE > BB
Minimum enmity OT: SP > SE

And some other stuff that isn't totally relevant to OT test.

If we're talking a fight with tank swaps (which will be the foreseeable future), Zerk is advised by the same poster to be paired with Unchained always:

Looked at his post. Very interesting, good find.

• I'm assuming 83.33 is auto-attack potency. Wonder why he would include that but not damage lost from defiance stance, considering they're both independent factors.
• Unsure if Maim applies to the last Butcher's block in SE>3xBB. Probably. I've just never gone 3 combos without going back to Maim. Cool to see though, wasn't expecting this to be the max hate string, but it makes sense in retrospect to stack maim buff with butcher's block multiplier.
• I was under the impression that any -10% resistance debuff was actually a +15% damage buff, not a +10% damage buff.
• Max hate combo is the highest hate per GCD on paper but it's all backloaded. Usually opening up with a storm's combo is a no-no.
• Pairing Berserk and Unchained seems logically sound, but I'm not impressed by the benefit of a 33% damage buff on my two auto attacks when pacified, and in a practical scenario in progression content I would rather keep that pocket IB. If I were ever free to hit Unchained I might as well just turn Defiance off. Regardless, I expect to be saving offensive cooldowns anyway for burst checks a la Conflag/DKs.

[Raldo]

I was under the impression that any -10% resistance debuff was actually a +15% damage buff, not a +10% damage buff.

Mathematically, -10% resistance is approximately equal to a +11.1% damage buff, not 15%. The actual number may differ a bit, depending on where resistances are taken into account in the damage calculation.

[Kaixin]

Mathematically, -10% resistance is approximately equal to a +11.1% damage buff, not 15%.

This is just one of those things I took for granted and never really tested. I'm going off of something I read somewhere (ugh...what a legit source) that foe req did something like +15% to +20% caster damage.

[Raldo]

Full disclosure: To come to that conclusion, I'm just doing a simple...

100/90 = 1.111111
100/100 = 1.0
thus, 11.1% improvement

... which is completely taken out of the context to the game, and could be completely wrong.

Fun fact: By that same logic, Foe Req. should also be a +11.1% increase in magic damage, but a Battle Voice Foe Req. should increase magic damage by 25%.

[Kaixin]

(I misread his equation. The OF poster does indeed apply a resistance debuff bonus as X/.9, which would lead to the 11% buff.)

It's pretty straightforward/makes sense to assume enemy resistances are calculated just like that, but I could've sworn people tested that normal foe req was 15 or 20%+ caster dps. However, it's likely that the tests weren't rigorous. Did anyone do a storm's eye/dragon kick/foe req check anywhere?

[Kidzukai]

this is a rotation that nets me about 210dps and works fine for tanking

Are you 30VIT on WAR? If so that's pretty dirty.