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  1. #41
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    I Added the 2 minute tests using fracture on both and adding zerk for warrior.

  2. #42
    Yoshi P
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaixin View Post
    (I misread his equation. The OF poster does indeed apply a resistance debuff bonus as X/.9, which would lead to the 11% buff.)

    It's pretty straightforward/makes sense to assume enemy resistances are calculated just like that, but I could've sworn people tested that normal foe req was 15 or 20%+ caster dps. However, it's likely that the tests weren't rigorous. Did anyone do a storm's eye/dragon kick/foe req check anywhere?
    The requiem tooltop is just 100% incorrect, so don't use that as the 10% -> 15% thing.

  3. #43
    a p. sweet dude
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raldo View Post
    Full disclosure: To come to that conclusion, I'm just doing a simple...

    90/100 = 1.111111
    100/100 = 1.0
    thus, 11.1% improvement

    ... which is completely taken out of the context to the game, and could be completely wrong.

    Fun fact: By that same logic, Foe Req. should also be a +11.1% increase in magic damage, but a Battle Voice Foe Req. should increase magic damage by 25%.
    I assume you meant to write 100/90, because 90/100 is 0.9. 1.0 - 0.9 = 10%.

  4. #44
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    Hahaha, yes. My bad, I will edit that.

  5. #45
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    Results after test 2 still seem mighty close. Having a timer go mere seconds longer on a 2 minute test can skew results. But did you generally feel that your WAR DPS was sustaining higher than PLD? Side question, were you using internal release on the WAR?

  6. #46
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    No I didn't, I'll add that in for the next set of tests. But yes, generally WAR was parsing higher while still being more "useful" with SE/SP. I've only had 1 legit test where PLD parsed higher than WAR and even then it was extremely close and averaged out in favor of WAR in the long run.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kidzukai View Post
    Are you 30VIT on WAR? If so that's pretty dirty.
    not anymore but with almost full i90 and food up im sitting on 8k health and maintain 160dps while MT and 210 when OTing

  8. #48
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    I'm anxious to give it a shot once I'm fully geared. I'm 30STR but I pretty much only use WAR in CT at i84. It's so fun.

  9. #49
    Relic Shield
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkimi View Post
    Ideally it makes sense. PLD will have constant -20% damage taken from Shield Oath while also benefiting from Storm's Path and Rage of Halone effects. If you switch the roles around WAR has to have IB up to even be on par with PLD's damage reduction, and it doesn't have further reductions like Rampart and Sentinel.
    Remember that with Defiance you gain additional survivability due to HP increase along with 20% healed HP bonus. That pretty much negates any benefit from Shield Oath.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephir View Post
    Remember that with Defiance you gain additional survivability due to HP increase along with 20% healed HP bonus. That pretty much negates any benefit from Shield Oath.
    This is a widely abused statement that holds no truth. It has been known since the beginning of measuring mitigation and effective health and all that from eons ago even before everquest. the math ALWAYS proves that mitigation is far far better than just having a health pool to take damage, for several reasons. If a boss hits for 10,000 dmg and you have 10,001 health to survive it, there is still issues with keeping you alive even though you survived. Just like druids in WoW for the longest time we just called mana sponges. Ya they survived attacks but healers HATED them cause they had to spam heals non stop to just fill their health bar back up.

    Mitigation in any game calculator will show you a bigger EH increase and that is widely known, Not getting hit for the dmg to begin with is way better than taking the hit and having to be filled back up. In progression fighting you never know how much a new boss can hit for MAX damage wise. So you your MTs always focus on mitigating the hit rather than surviving it. This isn't an argument about any tank being BETTER. At this time both can do all fights appropriately. But don't fool yourself into thinking warrior is great for progression tanking. Any mitigation buffs they bring to the table like SP and other things usually effect the paladin too if the warrior was off tank, so there is no mitigation bonus to warriors over the paladin per say. The only thing they have is 2 cooldowns compared to many on the paladin to normalize dmg over time. They CAN do the job, but they are not optimal.

  11. #51
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    Because warriors with defiance on don't get the higher hp filled just as easily as paladins right? hurr

  12. #52
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    This just in, Defiance and Shield Oath are essentially identical.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raldo View Post
    This just in, Defiance and Shield Oath are essentially identical.
    w/e you guys can't be reasoned with logic so I guess this is pointless.

  14. #54
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    It's always impressed me that people don't understand that WARs also receive bonus healing. Damage wise, they're literally the same thing as far as effective HP goes, just you see bigger numbers, both taken and healed, with WAR. It all comes down to utility, cooldowns, and mitigation patterns.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by earnhardt6276 View Post
    w/e you guys can't be reasoned with logic so I guess this is pointless.
    dat common sense tho

  16. #56
    CoP Dynamis
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    Quote Originally Posted by earnhardt6276 View Post
    w/e you guys can't be reasoned with logic so I guess this is pointless.
    Your logic leaves much to be desired

    Edit to just add how ironic it is that they said that this misconception needs to die, and then spends a ton of time spreading a misconception

  17. #57
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    Pens win! Pens Win!!! PENS WIN!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by earnhardt6276 View Post
    w/e you guys can't be reasoned with logic so I guess this is pointless.
    A hit for 5000:

    PLD takes (5000 * 0.8) 4000
    WAR takes all 5000.

    PLD needs 4000 HP cured
    WAR needs (5000 / 1.25) 4000 HP cured.

    They're functionally identical.

  18. #58
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    If you want reason or logic, try some math. Raising the numerator by 25% is the same change as lowering the denominator by 20%.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDirtyHobo View Post
    It's always impressed me that people don't understand that WARs also receive bonus healing. Damage wise, they're literally the same thing as far as effective HP goes, just you see bigger numbers, both taken and healed, with WAR. It all comes down to utility, cooldowns, and mitigation patterns.
    using LOGIC you SERIOUSLY! believe that being able to be healed better AFTER a hit is taken, that you are generally better able to take the hit to begin with? weather you the EXTRA health you have and the lack of mitigation at the time between you and another tank, that information is only valuable if you know the values of the HIT and the Current Damage mitigation you have. But if you always focus on mitigation first you can be assured you will at least be able to survive the hit first to BE healed later.

  20. #60
    Cerberus
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    Quote Originally Posted by earnhardt6276 View Post
    w/e you guys can't be reasoned with logic so I guess this is pointless.
    From a healer's perspective, Defiance and Shield Oath are almost the same; just about anyone can do the trivial math to prove it.

    If a PLD would take 500 damage and regain 500 HP from a cure, WAR would take 500/80%=500*125%=625 and the same cure would recover 500*120%=600 HP. The 500/625 HP of damage would be the same percentage of a tank's health (If PLD has X HP, WAR has ~125%*X, 500/X=(500*125%)/(X*125%)), all other factors between them being equal. There's a small margin of difference in recovery, which may or may not be compensated from HP drain in Bloodbath / Inner Beast / Storm's Path.

    Actual difference in tanks is the cooldowns.