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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDirtyHobo View Post
    Despite the fact that it's already been shown a dozen times in the thread, I'm going to waste my time and try to break this down for you a little.

    Say both tanks have 7000 base HP. The warrior with Defiance on now has 7000*1.25 or 8750 HP. If you have a big hit, say, a Death Sentence, coming in that hits for 6000 damage unmitigated, you have your PLD taking 6000*0.8 or 4800 damage. Your WAR takes the full 6000 unmitigated.

    So now, you've got a PLD sitting at 2200 HP, and a WAR sitting at 2750 HP. 2200 out of 7000 max HP is 31.428%. 2750 out of 8750 max HP is, shockingly, 31.428%.

    But now, of course, you need to be healed back up so you can take the next big hit. Your PLD is missing 4800 HP. Let's say you've got WHM that cure1's for 1200 a pop. Naturally this will take 4 cures to cap you back up. But what about our poor Warrior, who's missing 6000 HP? Well, thanks to Defiance's healing bonus, each 1200 HP cure1 now becomes 1500 HP healed. Miraculously, this divides into 6000 giving us an even 4 cures to take you back to full HP.

    Crazy how this shit works, isn't it?
    Again you are talking about hits that can be survived by both tanks as RAW dmg. An actual RAW dmg hit from these bosses like death sentence is more like 11k or so guessing here from the top dmg I have seen from it - the mitigation we have. So in the future to make up for new gear and stats. bosses will hit much harder, say 15-16k raw dmg. if you had 50% mitigation you need 8,001 health to survive. which we dont' have that high of mitigation at this point, And of course this is not including other classes mitigation applied but the key is that with raw dmg in the background being so high, you are talking in numbers where even 1% mitigation can make a big diff. As seen by trying to survive Twin's attacks when you first get to her in Darklight, and making it look a lot easier in full i90. I can tell you I have all jobs 50 including warrior, and both were and are geared. I have played both so I have seen the numbers on both sides. And before the buffs to warrior what happened? They could be One shot by death sentence easily, Where as Paladin could survive some of the toughest hits that came regularly, I have been hit by death sentence on warrior for over 8500 back before the changes. And ya I know you got changes so that point is moot right? No. Because it doesn't change my point or the story of warriors problems with progression. They don't have the constant mitigation to always be reliable. If your mitigation WITHOUT IB is lower then the hits you take before the big hit will leave you lower, just like the example of auto attacks after a big hit you used earlier. And thus you still take more dmg overall and can be put into a precarious spot due to lack of Overall mitigation that can be kept up. IB doesn't last forever and who knows what future bosses will do or how fast they will attack, that is a general statement sure but what we are talking about here is general. PASSIVE all the time mitigation ALWAYS beats out someone with more health. I love BOTH jobs. And I am not saying that one can or can't do any jobs in the game. I am just saying 9/10 you will see groups take Paladins to survive unknown fights because of Passive mitigation. The health by most is looked at as vanity.

  2. #82
    D. Ring
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    This guy, lol.

    How about you go provide some mathematical evidence, then we'll talk.

  3. #83
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    9/10 times the leader is a fuckhead then

    EDIT: I want to add that I've literally never been one shotted on WAR post fix. I think Death Sentence is the only thing that could potentially kill you in a single hit at lvl 50 and that's only if you're not mitigating it

  4. #84
    Old Odin
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    Can we get some paragraphs in here first? Line breaks are your friend.

  5. #85
    Relic Horn
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    Quote Originally Posted by earnhardt6276 View Post
    I am just saying 9/10 you will see groups take Paladins to survive unknown fights because of Passive mitigation.
    Of course PLD is better in unknown fights, it's easier to play blind because you have more cooldowns to cycle through with longer total uptimes. WAR takes a lot more skill and knowledge of the timing of the fight so that you make the most out of your Inner Beasts.

    That doesn't change anything about how their native stance strength functions. PLD is "true" mitigation, it reduces damage in an absolute sense. WAR is relative mitigation, it reduces damage by making it smaller relative to your increased HP pool/recovery.

  6. #86
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    I was wondering why this thread was being replied to...

    I mean, I know this is maintenance and thus everyone is bored but being trolled like this ( I would almost want to bet that this is Rata's alt ) is kind of depressing.

  7. #87
    Cerberus
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDirtyHobo View Post
    Of course PLD is better in unknown fights, it's easier to play blind because you have more cooldowns to cycle through with longer total uptimes. WAR takes a lot more skill and knowledge of the timing of the fight so that you make the most out of your Inner Beasts.
    Idunno about that, if you're worried about IB wearing before incoming burst then couldn't you just Infuriate and give it another IB to reapply?

    And if you're going with damage that's essentially ass-random with how little prediction you have of it coming, Inner Beast would at least be up ~26% of the time by just firing it off as much as possible.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbyprime View Post
    I was wondering why this thread was being replied to...

    I mean, I know this is maintenance and thus everyone is bored but being trolled like this ( I would almost want to bet that this is Rata's alt ) is kind of depressing.
    I don't know, I've done a fair amount of tutoring work, so my tolerance towards dealing with people who have the absolute worst ideas but insist that they're right is pretty high. As is my urge to calmly correct them and show where they're wrong.

  9. #89
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    Well, there's no more pld thread so here's as good a place as any.

    With 2.2, new builds and such, with such a wide array of new tank dps oriented pieces, going to try with something like this

    http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/LZM9

    pending acc caps and such. Total loss of parry but given that most end-game fights involve surviving clear 1 shots instead of migration over time, I don't expect it to be an issue.

  10. #90
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    Pens win! Pens Win!!! PENS WIN!!!!!

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    If accuracy is no concern I'd rather use Finger Sandwiches if you're worried about the drop in Parry, and if accuracy is a concern, I'd still use Finger sandwiches and switch to Noct Lorica because I switched to Lava toad eggs.

  11. #91
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    Not worried about parry which is why I'm picking toads, the acc is just a guess right now

  12. #92
    a p. sweet dude
    Pens win! Pens Win!!! PENS WIN!!!!!

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    I'm missing the Turn 6 boss with 484 currently, for whatever that's worth.

  13. #93
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    Capped at 494 on WAR.

  14. #94
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    I think the biggest issue with PLD is with core mechanics. Not too many bosses and mobs deal high alpha damage (that you can't outright avoid) and standing in the path of an over broadcasted attack is pretty pointless. SE can't just make content that favors PLD more because it'll just wind up like FFXI all over again. I think the only thing we can hope for in the future is better situational utility like being better at tanking and maintaining aggro on multiple mobs better and longer than WAR.

  15. #95
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    idk, I am a fan of being able to do all the content with either tank without having to suffer. Sure, WAR can generally hold better/faster hate in a Bray SR big pull but PLD certainly can do it too. It gives us the option to play whatever we want without much consequence. I know that as a career PLD throughout all of my XI time, I'm tired of PLD and WAR is an amazing change of pace.

  16. #96
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    Don't get me wrong, I also like that both are 100% viable. But in the grand scheme of things if we get say 2-3 more tanking classes over the years that don't stand out from one another in specific ways, what's the point of having them outside of novelty?

    From what I've seen, SCH and WHM while both viable, have drastically different playstyles. We need something like that for the tanks so it doesn't become redundant in the long run.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol-Blackguy View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I also like that both are 100% viable. But in the grand scheme of things if we get say 2-3 more tanking classes over the years that don't stand out from one another in specific ways, what's the point of having them outside of novelty?

    From what I've seen, SCH and WHM while both viable, have drastically different playstyles. We need something like that for the tanks so it doesn't become redundant in the long run.
    Evasion tanking (read: NIN) is going to probably require reworking of stuff like the shitty resistance system we have now. Either that, or maybe making the status effects a hypothetical NIN in the vein of XI would rely on to maintain shadows and minimize damage taken be treated as seperate and unique statuses (Kurayami being treated as a different Blind or something, for example, but still doing the same thing).

    I don't even want to think about a magic-oriented tank like RUN or something, although I have much more confidence that it would be better designed and adjusted than it has in XI thus far.

  18. #98
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    True, I never participated in the beta but even now some things feel incomplete which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I actually hope NIN doesn't wind up being a tank this time around though. Maybe an AOE debuff/spike DPS hybrid to compliment THF. I wouldn't mind seeing RDM as a magical tank/buff specialist though. As long as each tank (assuming we get more) stays as viable as the next with a specific strength in one area we'll be in good shape. DPS and healers look solid enough, it's just the tanks that worry me.

  19. #99
    CoP Dynamis
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol-Blackguy View Post
    True, I never participated in the beta but even now some things feel incomplete which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I actually hope NIN doesn't wind up being a tank this time around though. Maybe an AOE debuff/spike DPS hybrid to compliment THF. I wouldn't mind seeing RDM as a magical tank/buff specialist though. As long as each tank (assuming we get more) stays as viable as the next with a specific strength in one area we'll be in good shape. DPS and healers look solid enough, it's just the tanks that worry me.
    SAM is my next guess...it's a traditional "tank" or OT role in previous FF's, and was a viable tank for some stuff with the right build in FFXI.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indomitable Will View Post
    SAM is my next guess...it's a traditional "tank" or OT role in previous FF's, and was a viable tank for some stuff with the right build in FFXI.
    Almost anything could tank in XI as long as they could generate the enmity to do it. So basically not BST and SMN.

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