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  1. #101
    Professional Lurker
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    Braxton Ryker
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    Excalibur

    I can't even count how many sad feels I had when I had to start kiting kirin as rdm instead of pld

  2. #102
    CoP Dynamis
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    Indomitable Will
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    Goblin
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    Ifrit

    Quote Originally Posted by Edelweiss View Post
    Almost anything could tank in XI as long as they could generate the enmity to do it. So basically not BST and SMN.
    fair enough, but just looking at AF1/AF2 gear ability bonuses, and basic abilities, SAM was intended to tank some i think, it just generally didn't happen all that much because pld and nin were better.

  3. #103
    Old Odin
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    Seravi Edalborez
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    Hyperion
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    Titan

    When I see a really mediocre tank (like, WAR that doesn't open a boss with Unchained zerk "I have hate forever" opener), sometimes I just spam Succor to see if I can rip hate. Sometimes it works.

  4. #104
    Professional Lurker
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    Braxton Ryker
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    Even if they don't open with unchained zerk that's still disgusting if you pull hate off them

  5. #105
    Nidhogg
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    Lakshmi

    Quote Originally Posted by Indomitable Will View Post
    fair enough, but just looking at AF1/AF2 gear ability bonuses, and basic abilities, SAM was intended to tank some i think, it just generally didn't happen all that much because pld and nin were better.
    It didn't happen because of lazy/shitty healers. I went static as WAR/MNK tank and never had any issues because our WHM knew what the hell she was doing. Not implying that playing healer is brain surgery, but player quality took a nosedive when everyone was getting powerleveled most of their career.

  6. #106
    Smells like Onions
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    I'm am level 36 MRD/WAR on PS4 what rotation should I be using to be better tank.

  7. #107
    Old Odin
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    Seravi Edalborez
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    Hyperion
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    Titan

    If you don't have Maim running, you're doing it wrong.

    Single target: Tomahawk to open. Butcher combo to secure hate, then *Heavy > Maim > (Storm's Path at 38, Storm's Eye at 50) > Heavy > Skull > Butcher > repeat from *. Inner Beast whenever it's up, nothing pre-50 you really need to save it for.

    Groups: Overpower once or twice to secure hate, then get Maim up then (assuming your party is focusing down one by one) do the same as above. If party can actually do AoE damage, cycle targets with your combo. Like Heavy>Skull on #1, Butcher on #2. You only need to make sure stuff is hitting you. Don't have to have a huge hate lead on one and lose the other two. Don't get tunnel vision.

    Be on WAR and in Defiance when doing anything 30+. You will have difficulty holding hate from DPS at-level or above your level otherwise.

    Need more information if you think your problem isn't related to anything above.

  8. #108
    Cerberus
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    Bahamut

    I usually open w/ overpower instead of tomahawk. Overpower is 120 potency w/ a x5 multiplier (if the internet is to be believed) versus tomahawk at 130 potency and x3 multiplier. Overpower has slightly less range than tomahawk so there are some occasions where I'll still use tomahawk, but they're limited.
    Without defiance/anything up, overpower is 120(5) potency which is 600 potency worth of enmity, and tomahawk is 130(3), or 390 potency worth of enmity.
    In all honesty if you're doing shit correctly it won't matter which you pull with, but I went through a very rough month where my WHM, SMN, DRG, and BRD had high allagan weapons while I was still using a wave axe, so every little bit helped. Also, fuck spur + rouse + enkindle on pull.

  9. #109
    CoP Dynamis
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    Haalia Melchiott
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    Leviathan
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    So, was arguing over on Reddit (yeah I know....) about PLD vs. WAR OT DPS...they're under the impression that PLD is by far the better DPS class for offtanking. I've been linked this: handwavey nonesense on the OF for "proof that it's been mathed out". I don't have time to go through it yet....a few pages in, and no actual math or parses to be seen yet.

    If someone's got the time, can you let us know if they're full of it, or if PLD is actually omgwtfamazing dps compared to WAR.

  10. #110
    D. Ring
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    Raldo Volca
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    Balmung

    If a PLD can take advantage of both Sword Oath and Storm's Eye, then yes, they'll do more damage than a WAR, however without digging into detail of that OF post, I can already tell you that it underestimates the WAR's damage somewhat because Inner Release isn't taken into account, and likely also ignored the +crit rate given with wrath stacks because that'd be a pain in the ass to estimate.

    Note also that if your WAR is MT, they won't be able to keep SE up 100% of the time (though you can keep it pretty close). If you want them using Storm's Path at all, then the math gets murkier.

  11. #111
    Salvage Bans
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    Rozaria Eleanor
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    Ragnarok
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyanoko View Post
    So, was arguing over on Reddit (yeah I know....) about PLD vs. WAR OT DPS...they're under the impression that PLD is by far the better DPS class for offtanking. I've been linked this: handwavey nonesense on the OF for "proof that it's been mathed out". I don't have time to go through it yet....a few pages in, and no actual math or parses to be seen yet.

    If someone's got the time, can you let us know if they're full of it, or if PLD is actually omgwtfamazing dps compared to WAR.
    isnt that same guy who believe that if you cap DET on novus you will only get 22 on final form weapon>.>

  12. #112
    Yarglebargle
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    Valefor

    Are they basing their math that the WAR offtank is using Defiance even while offtanking? Then yeah, PLD in sword oath will do more damage than an offtank WAR in defiance, but if the WAR is switching off Defiance (as you should be) then I don't see it. Especially since they're not accounting for IR.

    EDIT: Scratch that, just read the post, they're not accounting for IR with Defiance off which is pretty significant if used properly.

  13. #113
    E. Body
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    Kirby Prime
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    So far, I've never managed to out-dps a similarly geared WAR on my PLD. My PLD is sporting +30 STR and in DPS mode with roughly i100~ DPS gear I did roughly 200 dps merged on T9. WAR OT on the same fight apparently does around 250.

    I would need to re-test warrior vs paladin on T8, though it's kind of hard to do that right now since my PLD has to gimp DPS to not pull hate.

  14. #114
    E. Body
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    On a side note, I need to grab a DPS geared warrior sometime to do a parsing test with.

  15. #115
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    from personal experience with both HA weapons they come out about the same, with warriors being incredibly, incredibly better for AOE packs in 4 mans (as you can imagine).

  16. #116
    E. Body
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    I'll probably need to delete ACT and redownload to normalize all of my parses compared to other people's as well. Some issues with some of the settings I made before seems to lower my DPS due to how long it takes for the encounter to end.

  17. #117
    A. Body
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    Sir Taint
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    WAR does so much more DPS as the MT it only makes sense for PLD to be the OT.

    The 350dps parse from a PLD on t8 really heated up the debate.

  18. #118
    E. Body
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taint View Post
    WAR does so much more DPS as the MT it only makes sense for PLD to be the OT.

    The 350dps parse from a PLD on t8 really heated up the debate.
    I have no freaking idea how he got 350. His rotation is standard, there's nothing special about it, he's full time dps'ing without doing mechanics but it shouldn't be able to do 350. Most I've managed in spike DPS potential on PLD has been 290 using a i110 but that pretty much drops to under 250 once a minute rolls by.

  19. #119
    Old Odin
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    Seravi Edalborez
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    I'm 2 WD, 35ish STR, and some secondaries short of "best possible DPS PLD" and I hit 277 with Sword Oath on a dummy before I run out of TP. I'm not really sure if those missing stats would fill the gap because I'm not sure if that PLD's gear was even "best possible".

  20. #120
    CoP Dynamis
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    I just banged out a quick n' dirty parse with PLD at 300, WAR at 315, and that's without doing any Defiance-Unchained-Zerk+Vengence for wrath stacks shenanigans. Not scientific, and closer than I expected, but I don't really see any debate here either.

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