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  1. #1
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    Paladin VS Warrior : Battle of the Off Tank DPS

    8/27/2014 EDIT:

    So did a test with Seravi on Paladin vs Warrior DPS using end-game gear.

    Stat wise we have the following

    Seravi ( Warrior )


    Kirbyprime ( Paladin )


    Overall parse for 3 minutes on a dummy is this


    This isn't a purely fair test as the stats are off, stat wise it highly favors me, however Seravi is using an i115 weapon compared to my i110 weapon. I'm also getting boosted from the Storm's Eye combo. At the end of the 3 minutes, Seravi still had some TP to burn while I was TP starved for the last 10s or so which should mean in a 4 minute parse he should start parsing over me.

    Take from it as you will, this does warrant additional testing though from the looks of it they can do a fairly comparable amount of DPS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Old shit
    EDIT: So apparently other people's data was bleeding into mine in ACT so the DPS was faulty. I'm redo'ing the numbers with the current test cases before testing with more optimized WAR rotations.

    Why am I doing this? No idea, whatever, who cares.

    This question gets posed on forums for some reason and there's debate on which is higher damage as a off tank so let's try to determine if there's any truth to the matter shall we.

    Methodology
    - 5 minute OT rotation on a dummy in Whitebrim
    - Each test is performed twice and average given in result
    - Using exactly same armor, same stats, same weapon damage ( STR is different but that's base STR difference not gear )
    - Both are using a 32dmg weapon. This is key when looking at results. Look at the % difference rather than raw DPS measurement.
    - All testing is with using ACT with 1.1.2.10 FFXIV Plugin
    - Warrior is always OFF defiance and Paladin is always in Sword Oath

    Assumptions
    - This is a big one, this is under the assumption all skills for Warrior and Paladin scale the same and thus both having full i90 but same stats will still produce the same difference in damage.

    Test 1 (32dmg 371crit 202det 352ss) -- 5 Minutes

    Warrior

    Storm's Eye> Butcher's Block > Repeat ( Brutal Swing used whenever possible )

    100% Accuracy
    115.77 DPS
    7% Critical
    34,038 Damage Total
    Storm's Eye > Storm's Path > Repeat ( Brutal Swing used whenever possible )

    100% Accuracy
    111.84 DPS
    7% Critical
    33,439 Damage Total
    Paladin

    Halone > Repeat ( CoS, SW, and FoF used whenever possible )

    100% Accuracy
    100.90 DPS
    8% Crit
    30,009 Damage Total
    Should probably note that both paladin and warrior became TP starved at roughly 2.5 minutes - 3 minutes into the test thus the numbers are lowered as I continued to test until the 5 minute mark.

    Results #1

    Nope Nope, just me being stupid, WAR is still better than PLD. Fuck me and fail testing. A 10% DPS increase on part of WAR

    Test 2 (32dmg 371crit 202det 352ss) -- 2 Minutes

    Warrior

    Storm's Eye > Zerk > Fracture ( After 3 combos ) > Butcher's Block > Repeat ( Brutal Swing used whenever possible )

    100% Accuracy
    133.39 DPS
    5% Critical
    16129 Damage Total
    Storm's Eye > Zerk > Fracture ( After 3 combos ) > Storm's Path > Repeat ( Brutal Swing used whenever possible )

    100% Accuracy
    128.41 DPS
    6.5% Critical
    15692 Damage Total
    Paladin

    Fracture > Halone x 2 > Repeat ( CoS, SW, and FoF used whenever possible )

    100% Accuracy
    122.43 DPS
    6% Critical
    15302 Damage Total
    Results #2

    It's still 10% increase, some of the tests went slightly over 2 minutes so the damage total numbers are a bit weird.
    Test 3 (32dmg 358crit 221det 352ss) -- 2 Minutes

    Warrior 322str

    Storm's Eye > Zerk > Fracture ( After 3 combos ) > Butcher's Block > Repeat ( Brutal Swing used whenever possible )

    100% Accuracy
    136.46 DPS
    5% Critical
    16184 Damage Total
    Storm's Eye > Zerk > Fracture ( After 3 combos ) > Storm's Path > Repeat ( Brutal Swing used whenever possible )

    100% Accuracy
    130.08 DPS
    7% Critical
    15740 Damage Total
    Paladin 312str

    Fracture > Halone x 2 > Repeat ( CoS, SW, and FoF used whenever possible )

    100% Accuracy
    133.12 DPS
    7% Critical
    15841 Damage Total
    Results #3

    It's still 10% increase, some of the tests went slightly over 2 minutes so the damage total numbers are a bit weird.
    TL;DR

    LolWarriors > LolPaladins >LolDRG in deeps.

  2. #2
    a p. sweet dude
    Pens win! Pens Win!!! PENS WIN!!!!!

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    Warrior has Maim which can basically be up 100% of the time, which is a 20% buff to damage. Paladin's Fight or Flight is 30% but is only up 30% of the time, making it a 9% buff to damage, further skewing things in WAR's favour. They can also Unchained with Defiance up to bypass the damage penalty and abuse Inner Beast.

    Anyone who legitimately thinks PLD is better DPS needs to have their head examined.

  3. #3
    Weaboo of the House of Weave
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    I have an item level 90 warrior and this thread just informed me that Brutal Swing does damage..

  4. #4
    D. Ring
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    Keep in mind Storm's Eye slashing resistance debuff will also help a PLD dps more. Since the two tanks are paired, ideally, the WAR is always helping the PLD "catch-up" to them.

  5. #5
    Weaboo of the House of Weave
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    It seems pretty obvious to me that they're supposed to work in tandem with each other.

    Storm's eye and path help the MT to do more and take less damage, and Halone reduces the enemy's damage.

  6. #6
    Melee Summoner
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    Why no Fracture in Warrior rotations?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kacey View Post
    Why no Fracture in Warrior rotations?
    That, also, if we're assuming TP can get starved, couldn't you also fit Berserk in as well? If you're gonna spend time not using weaponskills, you might as well get something out of it.

  8. #8
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    No Fracture? Would boost warrior deeps by a couple, but TP starve you that much faster.

  9. #9
    Chram
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andradi View Post
    No Fracture? Would boost warrior deeps by a couple, but TP starve you that much faster.
    Lasts longer than what PLD would get out of it, subbed, at least..

  10. #10

    Isn't it more or less supposed to be PLD = MT, WAR = offtank?

  11. #11
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    Somehow there's been rumors or whatever that PLD does more dps than WAR. It's been getting annoying hence why I did this. Yeah, I assume my combo for Warrior is off, I can retest and switch around iLevels to see if there's any difference. However, I stated that PLD's rotation pretty much already maxed out their possible DPS since there's not much else they can do to increase DPS while WAR can still do quite a bit more.

  12. #12
    Sea Torques
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berabouman View Post
    Isn't it more or less supposed to be PLD = MT, WAR = offtank?
    Ideally it makes sense. PLD will have constant -20% damage taken from Shield Oath while also benefiting from Storm's Path and Rage of Halone effects. If you switch the roles around WAR has to have IB up to even be on par with PLD's damage reduction, and it doesn't have further reductions like Rampart and Sentinel.

  13. #13
    Yoshi P
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkimi View Post
    Ideally it makes sense. PLD will have constant -20% damage taken from Shield Oath while also benefiting from Storm's Path and Rage of Halone effects. If you switch the roles around WAR has to have IB up to even be on par with PLD's damage reduction, and it doesn't have further reductions like Rampart and Sentinel.
    Actually.. that's pretty far from correct. Defiance alone is comparable to shield oath. Assuming you have both pld+war, you'd always have the -10% from storm's path so you can discount that. Warrior then has vengeance (-30%, 15s, 120s) and Inner Beast (-20%).

  14. #14
    Running Hell
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    Those are interesting results. If you look at it from a potential potency v. potency argument PLD w/ Storm's Eye should every so slightly pull out ahead of WAR.

    Paladin w/ Storm's Eye:

    WS [(150+200+260)/3]*1.1/.9

    AA 160.24*1.1/.9 (83.33 AA base + 25 SW + 25 CoS + 26.94 SO)

    WS+AA 235.56 + 195.85 (431.41) : 2.5s

    Paladin w/o Storm's Eye:

    WS [(150+200+260)/3]*1.1

    AA 160.24*1.1

    WS+AA 223.67 + 176.264 (399.93) : 2.5s

    Warrior:

    [(150+200+280+150+190+270)/6]*1.2*1.033/.9

    89.58*1.2*1.089/.9 (83.33 base + 6.25 BS)

    284.65 + 130.07 (414.72) : 2.5

    Berserk:
    Given the STR levels at ilvl90 a 50% boost to STR is approx. a 40% boost to damage.
    ~40% Damage Boost to AA for 20/90s, 8.89% Damage boost to AA
    ~40% Damage Boost to WS for 20/90s and -100% for 5/90s, 3.33% Damage Boost to WS

    Brutal Swing: 50/20*2.5 = 6.25

    Spirit's Within: 300/30*2.5=25

    CoS: 250/25*2.5=25

    Sword Oath: 25/2.32*2.5 = 26.94 (Delay was set to 2.32 for Curtana Zenith, Allagan Blade has 2.16 so would boost SO contribution to 28.54)

    Considering both jobs get access to essentially the same gear the only other thing to consider is WAR has higher base STR than PLD does by about 10 I think. Also in an ideal situation both jobs will have different secondary stats from mix-matching Myth + Allagan gear and Weapons. Both jobs should run out of TP at the same time if you disregard Fracture as each 3 Step combo is 70+60+60. Adding Fracture to the mix skews the results in WARs favor a bit since they have to reapply it less often.

  15. #15
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    Seems about right. Bonus stat points were the same, I'm assuming.

    PLD having 5% less crit is interesting, wonder if that's significant.

  16. #16
    Yoshi P
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    Given the testing method, I'm willing to bet that the RNG factor of critical hits wasn't removed from testing.

  17. #17
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    I didn't test long enough to remove RNG from crit. I'll do a few more tests at lunch to improve on it using different equip. I'm somewhat limited since I have to ensure that all stats are the same.

  18. #18

    Like another poster pointed out, there's no use of Maim? That's a 20% damage increase which is almost always up for WAR.

  19. #19
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    Huh? No one said anything about not having Maim? The Storm rotations HAVE to use Maim.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berabouman View Post
    Like another poster pointed out, there's no use of Maim? That's a 20% damage increase which is almost always up for WAR.
    Assuming maim is always up from the storm skills. It's not like he's using uncombo'd storm's eye/butcher's block/rage of halone here. Come on.

    Berserk would be a DPS increase for WAR, further increasing the gap. Fracture would benefit both classes but moreso for WAR. I have an i90 WAR/PLD myself, might throw in some tests as well tonight. Ugh, but that would need me to buy some keeper's hymns and I'm already out of seals. RIP Fates

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