Paladin VS Warrior : Battle of the Off Tank DPS

[bokchoykn]

If wearing full Ruby puts you at more Vit than you actually need, spend 250 GC Seals and shift attribute points to Strength.

If you've already done that and you still somehow have excess Vit, you can start replacing right-side accessories with Slaying accessories.

Under absolutely no circumstances should you ever give up 8 Vitality for 8 Determination.

[Prothescar]

will probably go for those super budget melds then (Vit4/Acc3/Det3/Vit3/Vit3). for the setup i posted, it's about 2,256,900 - 3,696,900 gil to pentameld all 5 accessories with decent luck (probably costs more though, on avg). Not sure if it's worth doing that when 110s are almost guaranteed to come in 2.5, which can't be more than a month or two off. Maybe I'll just stick to ghettoing it up and using 3DPS 110s + 2tank 110s until then, 260 - 280DPS isn't terrible as it is, is it?

[Ramset]

will probably go for those super budget melds then (Vit4/Acc3/Det3/Vit3/Vit3). for the setup i posted, it's about 2,256,900 - 3,696,900 gil to pentameld all 5 accessories with decent luck (probably costs more though, on avg). Not sure if it's worth doing that when 110s are almost guaranteed to come in 2.5, which can't be more than a month or two off. Maybe I'll just stick to ghettoing it up and using 3DPS 110s + 2tank 110s until then, 260 - 280DPS isn't terrible as it is, is it?

I've always rocked the ghetto setup because I don't have the Gil required for optimally melded crafted accessories, or even budget melds. That being said, I've never cared too much to try and get the Gil because as WAR I've always primarily acted as off tank, so I figure that just holding out until I get the slaying accessories was worth it. I always abandoned fending accessories and go full slaying once I'm max ilvl.

In terms of survivability and damage output..crafted is for sure optimal, but I'm doing a lot of main tanking for final coil, and I've gotten by on the mix/match of fending/slaying.

I don't know what turn you're referencing for those numbers, but those are definitely above average. For really good numbers in my opinion:

T10 - I'd say shoot for 300+ here as off tank (assuming warrior, 200+ for paladin)
T11 - Depends on which nose you tank, I think my numbers in t11 are garbage. Average around 240? I tank Gravity and still err on the side of caution for final phase because this turn stresses me out.
T12 - Current best is 260, but I think I'll improve that number closer to 300 next week, so I'd say anywhere 250+ here is pretty solid.
T13 - have not beat yet ; ;, Bokchoy posted a parse at 300? I think with i130 weapon and judging by where I've been hovering right now that's a pretty solid parse.

[Prothescar]

I do +/-260 or so in t10, +/-220 in 11 (I never take off defiance, I really don't like the idea of doing so when I'm taking damage the entire time along with the other tank), and so far +/-250 in t12. room to improve but I guess I'm not doing too bad

[bokchoykn]

T13 - have not beat yet ; ;, Bokchoy posted a parse at 300? I think with i130 weapon and judging by where I've been hovering right now that's a pretty solid parse.

I've been doing about 325 in T13, but I'm getting way more comfortable in the fight and getting more geared obviously. I had to hold back this week because we had bad phase pushes in Phase 1 and 2.

DPS plummets in Phase 3 because of downtime. It's hard to gauge where you are at.

I think 250+ for first time clear is where WARs should be shooting for.

[Grey Jorildyn]

I am breaching 340 in t10 but that's with fracture. It's impossible to keep it up fulltime though so I ended up around 295 by the end of the battle. Still rocking nexus axe but should have ragnarok by early next week based on my playtime. Hoping I can maintain over 350 without fracture with that.

Loadout is ruby accessories and shiva slay bracelet right side, ironworns body/waist/feet, dread head/hands, ha legs. My dps has been a big factor in pushing out the 4 bennus i know that.

[Seravi Edalborez]

My DPS as PLD has generally been pretty bad for being the "offtank" (you can see in a few of Cage/Ramset's where I'm ~100 lower than "MT". Generally because I'm being conservative about staying in Shield Oath. Ruby for 10-12, full VIT for 13.

T10: I open in Sword, switch to Shield to take first Charge, then generally stay for the 1-3 GCDs before adds pop. Sometimes I go Sword for adds but I'm keeping Shield almost more to hold hate for the first few seconds than for the damage reduction. Swap back to Sword when adds are dead. Shield for Charge, then back to Sword until adds, etc. Sometimes spend much of last phase in Shield if people die for whatever reason.

T11: Open in Sword, take Resonance in Sword, only swapping to Shield for tank swaps. Shield for add phase and rest of the fight.

T12: Sword after first Bennu dies and until after first Blackfire, then I pretty much never get to go Sword again. Last phase I'm often lazy and stay in Shield because I'm throwing Stoneskins around very liberally. Probably super excessive.

T13 (thus far): WAR opens and takes first Flatten, I'm in Sword for FoF duration then Shield for the rest of the fight so far (on 3rd divebombs/Teraflare).

[Ramset]

I think there's really not enough Paladins pushing DPS to make any good comparisons here. You doing 200 DPS in turn 10 I think is pretty solid. I'm almost considering leveling paladin just to see what I could do with the class.

I think we could definitely make some optimizations for your stance dancing, especially in turn 12.

[Niiro]

They should really throw PLD a bone and make Sword/Shield oath off GCD abilities like MNK and NIN's stances (can keep MP cost, not like it ever really matters).

[Ramset]

They should really throw PLD a bone and make Sword/Shield oath off GCD abilities like MNK and NIN's stances (can keep MP cost, not like it ever really matters).

Agreed, been saying this for a while; plus putting Shield Swipe off GCD too would be nice. Hopefully with level cap increase they get another utility combo or something. It's a really simply designed class that's true to the basics of tanking, which is fine, but a few tweaks wouldn't hurt. I just don't think there's enough people on OF bitching about PLD tweaks for it to get any real attention.

[Taint]

My DPS as PLD has generally been pretty bad for being the "offtank" (you can see in a few of Cage/Ramset's where I'm ~100 lower than "MT". Generally because I'm being conservative about staying in Shield Oath. Ruby for 10-12, full VIT for 13.

T10: I open in Sword, switch to Shield to take first Charge, then generally stay for the 1-3 GCDs before adds pop. Sometimes I go Sword for adds but I'm keeping Shield almost more to hold hate for the first few seconds than for the damage reduction. Swap back to Sword when adds are dead. Shield for Charge, then back to Sword until adds, etc. Sometimes spend much of last phase in Shield if people die for whatever reason.

T11: Open in Sword, take Resonance in Sword, only swapping to Shield for tank swaps. Shield for add phase and rest of the fight.

T12: Sword after first Bennu dies and until after first Blackfire, then I pretty much never get to go Sword again. Last phase I'm often lazy and stay in Shield because I'm throwing Stoneskins around very liberally. Probably super excessive.

T13 (thus far): WAR opens and takes first Flatten, I'm in Sword for FoF duration then Shield for the rest of the fight so far (on 3rd divebombs/Teraflare).

I do T11 exactly the same. T12 you can fit about 90seconds of Sword oath in before adds. It really helps push 4 Bennu since 90 seconds is around 10k in extra damage.

I MT the start, we swap during whitefire, sword oath for ~20 seconds, grab 2nd Bennu, swap back to MT and stay in Shield until 3rd bennu is dead, ~40 seconds of Sword oath until 4th bennu, shield oath the bennu, then its about 30 more seconds of sword oath until phase change. We added a ton of Weapon damage this week so the phases should push differently. (4 Zodiacs, i130 NIN and i130 BLM all added for tonight, was 5 i115s and one i120 last week)

[Seravi Edalborez]

They should really throw PLD a bone and make Sword/Shield oath off GCD abilities like MNK and NIN's stances (can keep MP cost, not like it ever really matters).

MP cost hurts me on the very rare occasion I spam a lot of Stoneskins back to back, but I would gladly take even a higher MP cost if it was off-GCD or something. Nothing like hitting Fast and realizing I have to stop now for a tank swap.

Or at the very least can it not break your combo?

[LinktheDeme]

Does anyone know if storm's path AND/OR Virus is calculated prior to defense/magic defense or is it calculated afterwards?

[bokchoykn]

Does anyone know if storm's path AND/OR Virus is calculated prior to defense/magic defense or is it calculated afterwards?

I'm not 100% sure, but I've always assumed that these factors had a multiplicative effect with each other:

• The potency of the attack.
• The damage source's attributes (eg. Str/Dex/Int/Det).
• The target's Defense/Magic Defense.
• Damage Modifiers (eg. Storm's Path, Blood for Blood, Crit/Block/Parry)

If I'm correct, it shouldn't matter what order these things are calculated as it would yield the same result.

[Ramset]

I am breaching 340 in t10 but that's with fracture. It's impossible to keep it up fulltime though so I ended up around 295 by the end of the battle. Still rocking nexus axe but should have ragnarok by early next week based on my playtime. Hoping I can maintain over 350 without fracture with that.

Loadout is ruby accessories and shiva slay bracelet right side, ironworns body/waist/feet, dread head/hands, ha legs. My dps has been a big factor in pushing out the 4 bennus i know that.

What do you mean by breaching? That's where you're peaking to on opening burst?

[Grey Jorildyn]

Kinda, don't have my numbers on me but I can push up to 340-350 but can't sustain it past first adds once I run across to the next set and then it just dies down to like 320 or less. Fracture raping my TP so bad and paeon doesn't come til near second adds so I have to drop it out for awhile. Probably just my i115 weapon holding me back at this point though.

[bokchoykn]

Yeah Warrior needs TP in that fight for sure.

I can get to 388 right now on a clear. Got a big upgrade this week so maybe I can reach 400.

[Abbul Stonecleaver]

Yeah Warrior needs TP in that fight for sure.

I can get to 388 right now on a clear. Got a big upgrade this week so maybe I can reach 400.

What accessories do you use to hit those numbers? And what weapon? That's mind blowing high. You could replace a dps in most groups and no one would notice.

My current best in T10 with HA Battleaxe, using 3 Str accessories (Noct ring and random piece and Shiva Slaying bracelets) (30 Vit spec) is 258.

My main rotation in there is SE into BB. I don't use a lot of Fracture due to TP issues when we were learning, I suppose I should fit it back in. I only have Defiance on when I'm tanking mostly. Sometimes it's up for IB before Wild Charge.

[Taint]

What accessories do you use to hit those numbers? And what weapon? That's mind blowing high. You could replace a dps in most groups and no one would notice.

My current best in T10 with HA Battleaxe, using 3 Str accessories (Noct ring and random piece and Shiva Slaying bracelets) (30 Vit spec) is 258.

My main rotation in there is SE into BB. I don't use a lot of Fracture due to TP issues when we were learning, I suppose I should fit it back in. I only have Defiance on when I'm tanking mostly. Sometimes it's up for IB before Wild Charge.

Our WAR hit 310 on T10 this week with two tank swaps during HL>Charge. i107 with Rag and Ruby. 388 is very impressive.

[bokchoykn]

What accessories do you use to hit those numbers? And what weapon? That's mind blowing high. You could replace a dps in most groups and no one would notice.

My current best in T10 with HA Battleaxe, using 3 Str accessories (Noct ring and random piece and Shiva Slaying bracelets) (30 Vit spec) is 258.

My main rotation in there is SE into BB. I don't use a lot of Fracture due to TP issues when we were learning, I suppose I should fit it back in. I only have Defiance on when I'm tanking mostly. Sometimes it's up for IB before Wild Charge.

That was with i130 Weapon. 4x Ruby accessories and i130 Slaying Ring.