Job Points discussion

[scaevola]

The interest that they don't want us to cap all our job points before they raise the cap and release more categories, so they make it harder than they eventually intend to make it.

You're begging the question. Why don't they want us to cap our job points before more are released, in your scenario, and more importantly why do it this way? If they don't want people to cap an ability the day it's released in a future patch, it would have made more sense to set the reserve cap drastically south of 200.

Because they have pretty much ALWAYS rolled out content like this? You make it sound like this is the first time they have introduced content without adjusting it (sometimes it took longer than others).

I accept a period of adjustment and rebalancing after release when unintended consequences/unreasonable expectations are not blisteringly obvious to any asshole with a calculator.

[Fwahm]

They don't want us to cap job points because it gives them more time to develop the expansions to the system before players start bugging them about it. Players are complaining about them being too hard to get now, but with a simple assurance that they'll adjust it, most of the complaining will likely go away, at least for a while.

[NynJa]

Do you not remember when SE put HMP trial on the test server and everyone thought "this next trial is 1500 of some item, I'm sure it'll have a high drop rate, no way SE will go from 50/50/75 to 1500, no way lol", then the item was discovered to be HMP's, and by description everyone thought they would drop from IG's or whatever...so no one said anything. Low and behold, VW drops.

Then SE put the RME99 trial items out on the test server...it was originally something like 250 Marrows, 200 Scoria and 2000 Rift items. People bitched, and threw numbers out there, numbers that VASTLY exceeded what 2 hours a day of farming JP at 20k/hr would get. "no this is fine lol". "No, you idiots, this is not fine, this will take close to 9 months to finish ONE relic weapon for ONE person, on a NM that can instantly wipe you if the AI decides it regardless of how perfect you are" (bear in mind this is still at 95 cap, not ilvl119). "ok ok, we'll cut it down to 150/125/1500". Eventually SE got coaxed down to 5/3/60. The previous numbers may not be exact, but they arent exaggerated either.

I believe your calculated value, for 6 chars by the way, is excessively lower than one char getting their relic.


Original Delve was supposed to last a good 7-8 months with a slow grind of upgrading delve armor to the point where you can kill bosses, except people jumped right through that in 2, then half the playerbase quit because "nothing new is coming out im bored".

[scaevola]

In that case, you got a legendary weapon that in some cases doubled your throughput

In this case, you get +60 accuracy on hundred fists

Then SE put the RME99 trial items out on the test server...it was originally something like 250 Marrows, 200 Scoria and 2000 Rift items. People bitched, and threw numbers out there, numbers that VASTLY exceeded what 2 hours a day of farming JP at 20k/hr would get. "no this is fine lol". "No, you idiots, this is not fine, this will take close to 9 months to finish ONE relic weapon for ONE person, on a NM that can instantly wipe you if the AI decides it regardless of how perfect you are" (bear in mind this is still at 95 cap, not ilvl119). "ok ok, we'll cut it down to 150/125/1500". Eventually SE got coaxed down to 5/3/60. The previous numbers may not be exact, but they arent exaggerated either.

BECAUSE PEOPLE COMPLAINED

LIKE WE ARE

RIGHT NOW


20 GOTO 10

[NynJa]

k whatever crybaby, talkin to a brick wall here.

Just kill one Wild Rabbit and get your JP capped on all jobs.

[Seha]

Why do you need to jump from current to instant. There can be a middle ground you know. It's not like I expect to cap everything in a day, but surely it could be better than this.

[scaevola]

They don't want us to cap job points because it gives them more time to develop the expansions to the system before players start bugging them about it. Players are complaining about them being too hard to get now, but with a simple assurance that they'll adjust it, most of the complaining will likely go away, at least for a while.

"it's okay, bro, they're just trying to manipulate our expectations in the most cynical way imaginable"

[Raelia]

What timeframe is appropriate to cap an entire job? A day? A week? A Month? A year? A decade?

In a very moderate sense, SE seems to have targeted this at the 'year' category if you just casually acquire JPs on a job you play often, and a month if you really tried hard to cap. They figure even the most ridiculously hardcore players would balk at spending an entire month for super incremental and situational upgrades, and they were right.

I hope it goddamn stays that way too. This game needs less "Oh, I did that in a week, what's taking you so long noob?" content.

NynJa's assertion is hyperbole, but also accurate. Bunch of entitled fucks in here.

[Prothescar]

Sorry that some of us play more than one job, I guess.

[Raelia]

Sorry that some of us play more than one job, I guess.

Because these upgrades are so amazing, if you don't devote yourself to one job it'll never compare?

I don't doubt that by the time they actually matter, they'll be far easier to get. They look exactly like merits did when 5k/hour was normal.

[Draylo]

They bitch 24/7 about anything. They said delve was too hard, made it easier so you see posts "im sooo disappointed I just beat the new delve all nms + boss!" They have no idea what they want, I hope SE doesn't listen to them.

[Prothescar]

Because these upgrades are so amazing, if you don't devote yourself to one job it'll never compare?

I don't doubt that by the time they actually matter, they'll be far easier to get. They look exactly like merits did when 5k/hour was normal.

Depends. If they end up adding more like BLU's for other jobs then it could become a problem, yes. We're getting more enhancements than what we just have now. I'm just saying that by the time they're "necessary", they'd better take less than over two thousand hours to cap , because nobody has time to do that for multiple jobs (and in some cases, even one).

[Ghost_Wheel22]

Because these upgrades are so amazing, if you don't devote yourself to one job it'll never compare?

I don't doubt that by the time they actually matter, they'll be far easier to get. They look exactly like merits did when 5k/hour was normal.

Only merits were worth slaving over in 5k/hr deco weapon and bone parties. Old/New merits were still worth it when 30k/hr lolibri came around. This feels a bit underwhelming for the time being in both rate and upgrade options. Banking JP for when more viable choices are released seems to be the best route unless you have a super hardon to squeeze a few more min/max drops out of a job or two.

[NynJa]

iirc, the old cap for attributes was 5, and at 3/6/9/9/9, you're looking at 360k xp. at 5k/hr, that's 72 hours of xping for STR+5.

Probably because achieving this for multiple classes is bitch work at the moment. I imagine this will become easier as iLV increases, but looking at the current facts:

At 30k CP/hr, you have 55 pts to attain and 30k CP

That's 55h of CP farming to cap a single bonus for a single class

When the cap increases to 30 max, you have 465 pts to attain

That's 465h of farming to cap a single bonus for a single class

This also comes with them increasing categories as well. So, lets say you have 5 bonuses per job.

That's 465h x 5 bonuses = 2325h of farming for a single job. All of this assume the point per bonus remains constant, but this is still a shitload of effort that could go elsewhere.

So, 72 hours for STR+5 was ok (and maybe a couple seals), but 55 hours of CP farming (his numbers, dont get upset at me if you feel this 55h is low) for Attack+20 on berserk, +30% damage to EES, 10% extra dex bonus to SA, 20%+ skillchain damage while under meiyo, acc+20 under 100fist, an extra 10 blu set points, a 10% chance of resetting wild card if you roll a 5 or 6, an extra 30 seconds to regen on sch, 20% of all magic damage absorbed under Sforzo (and a couple seals, and merits for high tier battlefields) is so fucking terribly horrible you all have to bitch and moan like your first born was just stolen from you.

[Yugl]

Because these upgrades are so amazing, if you don't devote yourself to one job it'll never compare?

I don't doubt that by the time they actually matter, they'll be far easier to get. They look exactly like merits did when 5k/hour was normal.

I like how this backwards logic keeps popping up. If the bonuses are so insignificant, then how do you justify the tedium of the system? Passive content is wasted content.

So, 72 hours for STR+5 was ok (and maybe a couple seals), but 55 hours of CP farming (his numbers, dont get upset at me if you feel this 55h is low) for Attack+20 on berserk, +30% damage to EES, 10% extra dex bonus to SA, 20%+ skillchain damage while under meiyo, acc+20 under 100fist, an extra 10 blu set points, a 10% chance of resetting wild card if you roll a 5 or 6, an extra 30 seconds to regen on sch, 20% of all magic damage absorbed under Sforzo (and a couple seals, and merits for high tier battlefields) is so fucking terribly horrible you all have to bitch and moan like your first born was just stolen from you.

No, 72h for 5STR was not ok. Big flaw in your logic. The 55h figure comes from a post saying he or she could not even achieve that much due to mob placement (And doesn't account for difference between jobs, future bonuses, or the inevitable rank additions). Try harder.

[Ihina]

Actually timed myself today; I'm also getting better. 32k/hr with dual boxing two characters, the third character just autofollow/leech.

I wonder how much they'll up the gain amount by since points are so hard to get.

[NynJa]

[20:44:16]Graf defeats Broxa. (ally of 15 or so)
[20:44:16]Nynja gains 316 experience points.
[20:44:16]Nynja gains 32 capacity points.

[16:05:34]Kehhiko defeats Broxa. (party of 6)
[16:05:34]Nynja gains 840 experience points.
[16:05:34]Nynja gains 94 capacity points.

Seeing as how CP is distributed like xp is based on party/ally size, it also stands to reason that his leech (that he claims is doing absolutely nothing to affect kill speed) is negatively affecting his CP gain, so his numbers of 25k/hr (and now 32k/hr) should actually be higher.



"Try harder", is that the USA version of France's "suck less"? Can we make a canadian one? How about "I'm sorry but you're terrible, eh"

[Yugl]

[20:44:16]Graf defeats Broxa. (ally of 15 or so)
[20:44:16]Nynja gains 316 experience points.
[20:44:16]Nynja gains 32 capacity points.

[16:05:34]Kehhiko defeats Broxa. (party of 6)
[16:05:34]Nynja gains 840 experience points.
[16:05:34]Nynja gains 94 capacity points.

Seeing as how CP is distributed like xp is based on party/ally size, it also stands to reason that his leech (that he claims is doing absolutely nothing to affect kill speed) is negatively affecting his CP gain, so his numbers of 25k/hr (and now 32k/hr) should actually be higher.



Try harder, is that the USA version of France's "suck less"? Can we make a canadian one? "I'm sorry, you're terrible, eh"

It's the US version of "You're full of shit because you accuse me of supporting 5STR/72h merit farming when I never made such a claim." But hey, lets continue to ignore real counterarguments and launch strawmans/blatant lies.

[Prothescar]

It's Nynja, what do you honestly expect? Strawmans and ad hominem are all he really knows.

[NynJa]

yeah, I'm strawmanning off numbers he posted himself.

Unfortunately, the census didnt track merit point usage untill 2009, and we were well out of 5k/hr grinds. Dont be upset buddy. Afterall, SE listens to and considers all complaints like the one about job points, and blue magic add effects. It only took 5 years for Tourbillion to be fixed, if not more? But yeah, it took 48 hours for SE to "revise" job points.