Science does science:NOW with more science!

[Meresgi]

No one has posted this yet?

http://www.businessinsider.com/harva...scovery-2014-3

http://bicepkeck.org/

Scientists have found the first direct evidence that the universe expanded incredibly quickly in the microseconds after the Big Bang.

This is ground-breaking and Nobel-Prize-worthy research, if it is confirmed by other researchers.

They found these signatures of cosmic inflation are gravitational waves in the cosmic microwave background radiation of our universe. Gravitational waves created by the Big Bang rippled through our infant universe during an explosive period of growth called inflation — when the universe expanded by 100 trillion trillion times, in less than the blink of an eye.

[archibaldcrane]

When we're talking about "incredibly quickly" do they mean faster than the speed of light?

[Seraph]

When we're talking about "incredibly quickly" do they mean faster than the speed of light?

Very much so.

[Salodin]

So does that mean going faster then the speed of light is actually possible?

[Pirian]

So does that mean going faster then the speed of light is actually possible?

No. The UNIVERSE is allowed to expand faster than the speed of light, but it is not actually an acceleration/velocity iirc. Now, don't ask me to explain why The acceleration/velocity thing may be wrong, but I know the first part is right. I think it has something to do with the fact that it is creating space into the nothingness outside of the universe

[BerenTebogo]

The principal of the inflation theory is that there was an expansion over a very, very, very short time frame where the universe expanded equally in all directions much faster than the speed of light. There is no real break of physics here since no matter / constituent components of matter traveled faster than the speed of light.

The way I think of it is an analogy of a balloon (also works for velocities at high redshifts). If you have one of those super teeny balloons and you call that all of space and time, when you "inflate" that balloon you've increased the volume dramatically but you haven't increased the amount of rubber present in the balloon, right? Think of the 3 dimensional balloon in both pre and post inflation states as the universe. In neither state can there be a transmission of information through the balloon / air medium that is faster than some constant, but the act of inflating the balloon (imagine if filled with a pressurized generator or something) expands the surface area of the balloon / volume of air much, much, much faster. Thought it is important to remember that in pre-inflationary state we're dealing with a singularity. Infinitely dense, like as in the singularity of a black hole.

Then, once the balloon has been inflated, we say the universe is in the post-inflationary era, the universe cools and matter recombines, light propagates, etc.

Hope that makes some sense.

tl;dr: No, nobody is going faster than the speed of light. No matter what stupid headlines may pop up.

Edit: Here have a picture I use in some presentations sometimes.
http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/...7-30-wmap3.jpg

[Seraph]

So does that mean going faster then the speed of light is actually possible?

I believe a decent way to explain it is that 'space' can potentially "move" (expand/adjust/inflate) faster than the speed of light, but 'anything inside that space' is limited to the speed of light.

[Psion]

Im still confused about this space thing. What you're saying is that the void of space expanded, but everything inside (matter and energy) was limited to the speed of light? But if space is just a void, wouldn't it be infinitely wide to begin with? (barring any other potential "clumps" of matter/energy that we havent observed because they haven't reached us)

Are you saying that there's two types of voids? the void of space, and a void even.... voidier than empty space?

[BerenTebogo]

Im still confused about this space thing. What you're saying is that the void of space expanded, but everything inside (matter and energy) was limited to the speed of light? But if space is just a void, wouldn't it be infinitely wide to begin with? (barring any other potential "clumps" of matter/energy that we havent observed because they haven't reached us)

Are you saying that there's two types of voids? the void of space, and a void even.... voidier than empty space?

Fundamental misconceptions about what is going on here, but don't worry, most people struggle with this stuff.

At the time of big-bang / inflation, there was no space. There was nothing. Anything that is "outside" our universe is inconsequential given that we cannot ever be outside of our universe to observe it, it's semantically meaningless.

Everything that ever is, was, and will be in our universe existed as constituent particles (quarks, gluons, perhaps even more fundamental??!?!?! (lol)) in an infinitely dense, infinitely hot singularity. AKA the center of a black hole. A physical representation of infinity, if you will.

This singularity is what expanded outward. It's expanse is what becomes space. The dense, hot, soupy mess of matter and energy get's spread throughout this "space" like the molecules of air spread through our inflating balloon. After inflation, everything in the universe is bound by the physical laws as we know them today. The dissipation of the density of matter allows for a cooling process to begin, and slight inhomogeneity in the distribution of matter allows for the cooling matter to clump together under the weak force of gravity and begin to collapse into molecular clouds. These will eventually form stars and galaxies, then fun stuff happens.

Edit: In my original post I used the example of an uninflated balloon, which may have been misleading since the uninflated balloon has mass, area, and general content to it. This uninflated balloon just represents the singularity I'm talking about.

[Waraji]

Are you saying that there's two types of voids? the void of space, and a void even.... voidier than empty space?

Pretty much, the Space beyond Space. I mean the space the Universe itself occupies is filled with stuff, its what we assume as dark matter. Its that space beyond space that we will be spending a very very long time searching for the meaning and understanding of.

@Seth, why is that "Space" outside of the universe inconsequential? Wouldn't that "place" be beyond the laws that we know? I would think that would have some influence on the way we perceive reality.

[Seraph]

Im still confused about this space thing. What you're saying is that the void of space expanded, but everything inside (matter and energy) was limited to the speed of light? But if space is just a void, wouldn't it be infinitely wide to begin with? (barring any other potential "clumps" of matter/energy that we havent observed because they haven't reached us)

Are you saying that there's two types of voids? the void of space, and a void even.... voidier than empty space?

It not my field at all, but my understanding is that "space" isnt really a void, but we consider it one when there is no matter present in it. I personally understand "space" as an acceptable medium for light to transition through at its maximum speed. Normally, that space is generally static (lets just ignore gravity and all that other fun stuff) and doesn't change much. Apparently almost immediately after the big bang, when the "bang" happened, and suddenly there was immeasurably dense hot matter all smashed together, for some reason during this process the space that this matter occupied "inflated" and expanded. My understanding is that the matter inside that space was "stationary" in the sense that it was not moving faster than the speed of light, but that the space around it was moving through expanded faster than light. I assume it had to do with the ridiculous levels of matter/energy/gravity/whatever present as part of the big bang process.

As a really bad example, lets compare it to a fish swimming in a fish tank. It can only move so fast through the water, but if you move the fish tank while the fish is swimming, it might 'move faster than possible' since the tank is moving too. Relativity doesn't really quite work this way, but it at least gets you starting to understand the concept. I also like the (still really bad) analogy of "Warp Drive" in Star Trek. You aren't moving the Enterprise directly, you are moving the space around the Enterprise...


EDIT: I believe Sath means that whatever exists outside out Universe is inconsequential because there is no way we could ever really interact with it in a meaningful way. It has taken all of time for the universe to get to the current 'edge of the universe', and it seems like the only way to ever possibly be able to overcome the speed of light (which we are currently limited to) is to harness levels of power so vast they created our universe in the first place. It's cool to think about, noone really knows what is out 'past the edge', but it doesn't really matter if we can never get there and it has no influence on us.

Maybe there is nothing out there past the edge, a literal void. Maybe it's just more space. Maybe God is out there. Maybe it's all just cheese. Pick your favorite, and run with it.

[BerenTebogo]

Pretty much, the Space beyond Space. I mean the space the Universe itself occupies is filled with stuff, its what we assume as dark matter. Its that space beyond space that we will be spending a very very long time searching for the meaning and understanding of.

@Seth, why is that "Space" outside of the universe inconsequential? Wouldn't that "place" be beyond the laws that we know? I would think that would have some influence on the way we perceive reality.

In string theory and other higher gauge theories it comes into play, but from a practical (and ease of understanding point of view) it isn't relevant since we can never probe it to experimentally verify anything. All regions of space are receding from us at velocities that will eventually be greater than the speed of light (at extreme distances) due to the effects of dark energy. Even assuming perfect light speed travel, we would literally never be able to reach the "edge" of the universe as it were and are thus limited by the laws of physics to only experimentally verifying what is in our own observable universe.

Anything else is PURELY theoretical and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I'm in the field of relativity, with my work focused on black hole dynamics. I'm primarily theoretical in training, so I love theoretical physics as much as anyone, but for the purposes of explaining basic cosmological concepts it does no good to go down the rabbit hole. For all we know everything outside our universe is pure cotton candy and skittles. Prove me wrong.

[Niiro]

why is that "Space" outside of the universe inconsequential? Wouldn't that "place" be beyond the laws that we know? I would think that would have some influence on the way we perceive reality.

There is no "space" outside of the universe, space is what makes the universe a.....thing. It's not expanding into some pre-existing "void", it's creating space as it expands.

To use the balloon analogy, there's nothing outside of the balloon, not even space.

[Tajin]

Sath said it better though, unless you can build something that can take you out of the universe(which we can't), you can say we're inside a giant whale and nobody will care (but everybody will argue )

[Seraph]

We haven't even gotten out of our own solar system yet (depending on who you ask). Even if we could travel at the speed of light (which we can't) we would never get there. Plus, assuming you are still following standard physics, you can only positively accelerate half way there assuming you want to come to a relative stop at your destination (half the time speeding up, half the time slowing down) so you aren't even moving at the speed of light the entire time.

We would need teleporters, or time machines, or magic, or technology that is currently deemed impossible to even have a slim hope of ever getting remotely far from where we currently are, let alone the edge of the known universe. Not to mention some vastly increased lifespans compared to what we have now. With infinite power and time, you could make a dent...

That's all it takes really, pressure, and time. That, and a big goddamn poster.

[Psion]

So i guess space is a "void" but the area outside the universe is a "non-existence"? or is the area outside just an "unknown, here there be dragons"?

[Waraji]

There is no "space" outside of the universe, space is what makes the universe a.....thing. It's not expanding into some pre-existing "void", it's creating space as it expands.

To use the balloon analogy, there's nothing outside of the balloon, not even space.

Don't mean to be a schtickler, but just because its nothing doesn't not make it a thing. Call it whatever you want. In the context of the balloon, you'd just have rubber extending into infinity in all directions from the inside edge, if that makes sense.

[BerenTebogo]

So i guess space is a "void" but the area outside the universe is a "non-existence"? or is the area outside just an "unknown, here there be dragons"?

Space isn't a void, it's full of all sorts of interesting stuff, except where it isn't.

But yeah, good enough for grasping the idea, and definitely a here be dragons thing.

Don't mean to be a schtickler, but just because its nothing doesn't not make it a thing. Call it whatever you want. In the context of the balloon, you'd just have rubber extending into infinity in all directions from the inside edge, if that makes sense.

It is entirely possible it is not a thing. He's 100% right (well, you're both right).

There is 0 reason why the laws of physics for our universe should apply in any way that we could even hope of understanding outside of our universe. As such, there's no reason to assume there's even anything outside of our universe for laws to exist within.

We are speaking in COMPLETELY foreign and impossible to understand terms. There is less than zero evidence for any choice to be correct. Be it cotton candy, skittles, giant whales, literal nothingness, or everything at once.

The balloon is a weak analogy made to bridge the gap between cosmology and the world around us that you are all familiar with. It is not something literal or intended to be taken to any extreme.

[Waraji]

I have no problem with the balloon analogy, its just it only helps to explain one side while giving someone more curious to confuse the outside of the balloon, let alone the Skin of the balloon. Balls, anyone else visualize a red balloon? <_<

[Tokitoki]

Balls, anyone else visualize a red balloon? <_<

Is there any other color for balloons?