Not without my ovaries.

[Clash Perez]

And type 2 diabetes? Current thinking is that while there is a genetic component, it's also largely self-inflicted too. Should they be required to fund their own treatment as well?

Break your arm while climbing a tree? Break your ankle while skiing? Sorry Bub, shouldn't have been X-ing in a war zone.

[Dotsudoku]

If this means, paying for abortion, no problem with it. You go to a hospital, you get surgery. And for the guys that wanna take their marbles out, no problem there either. However I can see this being abused.

BUT If this means paying for pills/patch(or even condoms for the guys), etc, this is stupid.

I'm all for making companies pay for insurance, with the millions in profit on the bottom line they get - they should be paying. But there has to be a line drawn some where.

Honestly, birth control is a self-control responsibility. It should be no one else but your own.

Not agreeing or disagreeing with any component in particular, but elaboration would be appreciated. Why are you drawing the line at the surgical options rather than preventative ones? And why are you drawing the line at things that are strictly for preventing(or terminating) pregnancies, rather than at measures that serve multiple health-related purposes?

Just curious

[Uzor]

This is stupid, contraceptives should be payed for by the individual. You shouldn't have to be hand-held by the government. If you want to have sex you should be prepared for the consequences. The only exception should be in schools, where I do believe teenagers should be able to pick up pills and condoms for free to encourage and teach safe sex to prevent teen pregnancies and STD's. It's stupid to believe they won't fuck like rabbits just because you decide to close your eyes and ears and go "NANANA". It's better to teach safe sex and hand out free contraceptives than to teach abstinence. Teenagers don't listen and will do whatever the fuck they want anyway. Sweden has taught mandatory sex ed in school since the 60's, and is usually taught at least once every 2-3 years. We've even had sex ed movies that are pretty much soft porn with full penetration and masturbation of both genders. Those classes were always fun, the teachers were always so uncomfortable teaching those subjects, especially when students ask questions. The only teacher I ever had that wasn't awkward talking about it was just plain strange though, she'd go around the room asking everyone what the size of their penis was, and asking the girls if they ever masturbate. I think she got fired after that...

Adults, however, are old enough to make their own damn decisions and take responsibility for it.

[archibaldcrane]

Except society ends up paying. So sure, free birth control.

[Uzor]

Except society ends up paying. So sure, free birth control.

Well, I suppose. Sweden, Denmark and probably the rest of the Scandinavian countries have the opposite problem of a pretty much stagnant population. It's lead to some hilarious commercials, like this one:

[Cliron]

Annoying stuff

Because adults as a group of people are homogeneous.

There's no difference in wealth, education, health, cultural beliefs etc. Also, all adults generally have sex/take responsibility for sex/ think about babies all in the same way.

You're an eejit. You are placing your ability to do something onto EVERYONE else.

One example: Paying for contraceptives is more difficult for poorer families. Paying for contraceptives when you are on minimum wage, or stamps or whatever is going to take up alot more of your usable income than to a middle class couple with one child.

<insert all the data on poorer families...babies...vicious circle...blah blah>

There's like a hundred other relevant comments to be made, all of which generally showing how adults are complex...but I really shouldn't have to spell them out.

[dejet]

do be fair there is almost always a place around you that will give you a condom for free. Most colleges have a free area for kids and I know at least around my area planned parenthood gives shit away for free if you walk in(think you can even get the morning after pill somewhat cheap there). ~_~ so ya, you get the basics for free, everything else shit out of luck.

[Uzor]

Abortion should never be free, unless it's for medical reasons, or arguably ethical reasons (eg: rape or whatever). It's not a form of contraception.

Almost all of my female friends (That is, all of them except for those that can't for medical reasons or because they're trying to have a baby) have either a contraceptive coil or an implant.

[Roranora]

raw dog every day, good girl

[archibaldcrane]

Abortion isn't free here. No one is seriously arguing it should be. Just the morning after pill (designed to halt ovulation).

[Clash Perez]

If one is paying insurance premiums, then nothing related to what is being provided by the insurer is free. It's a matter of just how not-free it is.

[Cliron]

Abortion should never be free, unless it's for medical reasons, or arguably ethical reasons (eg: rape or whatever). It's not a form of contraception.

Almost all of my female friends (That is, all of them except for those that can't for medical reasons or because they're trying to have a baby) have either a contraceptive coil or an implant.

I hate to come across as a bully, but gheesh you're some gom.

Using the term Never, and then giving two examples where you'd allow it to be permitted. Cool.

Then, to further your trend of 'my life experience is reflective of all society', you talk about 'almost all your female friends'. When 'almost all of your female friends's include representations of all women in US society please come back to me with that statement (that drug addicted prostitute in Seattle; the learning disabled woman on disability married to a man also with a learning disability/developmental disability with co-occuring substance abuse disorder; the first generation immigrant girl from Romania who has an amazing aptitude for maths and sciences but strong cultural and familial pressures; etc etc).

Although its been mentioned about a million times that abortion/=/ contraception, may I ask why you feel so strongly that abortion should never be free? I perhaps agree that abortion should never be free for all people in society, but personally I would approve of it being free for all people up to a certain income range (say arbitrarily family income of 30k+).

And can we please skip past the 'then women will use it as revolving door where they will gets preggo and kill the babez every month' argument unless you have a strong argument (based on data pleaaaaaaaaaase...there are many countries in the world with free/very reduced abortion when inability to pay is a factor)...because to quote Valerie Cherish circa 2005 "I don't want to see that".

P.s. Please god don't mention one case of one woman that you knew who had 50 abortions and was #luvinlife. There will always be a very small minority of people who do extreme behaviours: I worked in a hospital where in the psychiatric ward one or two people kept drinking the hand santizers to get drunk from the alcohol. I don't now believe that all hand santizers should be banned in all hospitals.

[Uzor]

It's not because I think that women will use it as a contraceptive "just because". I actually personally know three women who's got an abortion, and all of them say that it's not something they would ever want to go through again. Not only because of the physical pain they felt, but the mental pain they felt too, having to kill something inside of them. I think it shouldn't be free (unless, like I said, special circumstances, such as the girl being too young, or medical risks or what-have-you), but because of the same reason I don't think contraceptives should be free (again, excluding teenagers, because they need to be taught from an early age to use it). What people do in their bedrooms or in their private life is everyone's personal business, and the government should not get involved.

For example, I'd hate to see a situation where someone gets fired or doesn't get insurance payout just because they failed to take the free contraceptives they were provided, or where a woman gets placed in a position where she's forced to choose between her work or an abortion because abortions are free. Do you honestly believe situations like that won't happen? There's a lot of people looking for minimum-wage jobs. If a woman gets knocked up and there's a law in place that gives everyone free contraceptives, do you honestly believe that companies and insurance companies won't use that law to their advantage and state that "It's your own fault for getting pregnant", or, if there's free abortions too, "too bad, abortion or no job"? Having a woman on maternal leave is already costly to employers, and if abortions or contraceptives would be free, they have that on their side, too. Women are in a bad position on the job market as it is because of the potential of maternity leave, this could put them in an even worse position. Yes yes, I know, it's illegal to fire someone for getting pregnant, but it's not like it's never happened before, and with a law like this in place they even have a reason for it.

Even though I definitely do not agree, there's also the people who'd have their rights infringed upon because the government wants them to use contraceptives or abortion. It could potentially put a lot of women in an even worse situation than they are in now job-wise.

What should be free, on the other hand, is treatments for STI's, and a wider encouragement to get yourself checked in order to prevent the spread of STI's.

[Blubbartron]

It's not because I think that women will use it as a contraceptive "just because". I actually personally know three women who's got an abortion, and all of them say that it's not something they would ever want to go through again. Not only because of the physical pain they felt, but the mental pain they felt too, having to kill something inside of them. I think it shouldn't be free (unless, like I said, special circumstances, such as the girl being too young, or medical risks or what-have-you), but because of the same reason I don't think contraceptives should be free (again, excluding teenagers, because they need to be taught from an early age to use it). What people do in their bedrooms or in their private life is everyone's personal business, and the government should not get involved.

For example, I'd hate to see a situation where someone gets fired or doesn't get insurance payout just because they failed to take the free contraceptives they were provided, or where a woman gets placed in a position where she's forced to choose between her work or an abortion because abortions are free. Do you honestly believe situations like that won't happen? There's a lot of people looking for minimum-wage jobs. If a woman gets knocked up and there's a law in place that gives everyone free contraceptives, do you honestly believe that companies and insurance companies won't use that law to their advantage and state that "It's your own fault for getting pregnant", or, if there's free abortions too, "too bad, abortion or no job"? Having a woman on maternal leave is already costly to employers, and if abortions or contraceptives would be free, they have that on their side, too. Women are in a bad position on the job market as it is because of the potential of maternity leave, this could put them in an even worse position. Yes yes, I know, it's illegal to fire someone for getting pregnant, but it's not like it's never happened before, and with a law like this in place they even have a reason for it.

Even though I definitely do not agree, there's also the people who'd have their rights infringed upon because the government wants them to use contraceptives or abortion. It could potentially put a lot of women in an even worse situation than they are in now job-wise.

What should be free, on the other hand, is treatments for STI's, and a wider encouragement to get yourself checked in order to prevent the spread of STI's.

1) The mental anguish women experience is mostly self-inflicted, but it's self-inflicted because our society has so many people that feel so strongly that abortion is some awful, terrible crime and you're a terrible, awful person if you ever have one. I look at women who regret their abortions the same as gays who regretted accepting their sexual orientation due to backlash on coming out. Yes it sucks for the women right now, but as society progresses, the mental anguish will no longer be a factor. The more people who resist the push to conform to society's current standards, the faster we'll progress. You're not helping society progress with your thoughts on abortion and contraceptives, unfortunately.

2) Women already have to choose between family life and their careers. That choice explains something like 80-90% of the mythical wage gap between men and women. If you don't want women to have to make this choice, then tell your congressmen and senators to adopt more family-oriented labor laws. Other 1st world countries have maternal and paternal leave that put the U.S.'s to absolute shame.

3) You're fucking insane if you think the government is telling anyone they must get abortions or use contraception. Personally I'm 100% for government-regulated breeding (to prevent Idiocracy from becoming reality), but the government absolutely isn't doing that at the moment, and laws regarding health insurance and abortion/contraceptive coverage isn't a step towards that in the least.

[Meresgi]

Yes yes, I know, it's illegal to fire someone for getting pregnant, but it's not like it's never happened before, and with a law like this in place they even have a reason for it.

They can't mandate you use contraceptives, just like they shouldn't be able to mandate that you CANT use them. The option should be provided to each employee and the decision should rest on them. Fucking hell, I know for the most part people are stupid as shit and need to be handheld through life, but at some point take a step back. Same thing with passing bills to outlaw "FATASS" gulp size soda.

[Day]

I thought women getting birth control for "free" was one of the few things widely accepted as a good thing from normal folks on both sides of the political table. Silly me.

[Aksannyi]

ITT: A man trying to tell women how to handle their vaginas and what goes in/out of them.

[Serra]

It's not because I think that women will use it as a contraceptive "just because". I actually personally know three women who's got an abortion, and all of them say that it's not something they would ever want to go through again. Not only because of the physical pain they felt, but the mental pain they felt too, having to kill something inside of them. I think it shouldn't be free (unless, like I said, special circumstances, such as the girl being too young, or medical risks or what-have-you), but because of the same reason I don't think contraceptives should be free (again, excluding teenagers, because they need to be taught from an early age to use it). What people do in their bedrooms or in their private life is everyone's personal business, and the government should not get involved.

For example, I'd hate to see a situation where someone gets fired or doesn't get insurance payout just because they failed to take the free contraceptives they were provided, or where a woman gets placed in a position where she's forced to choose between her work or an abortion because abortions are free. Do you honestly believe situations like that won't happen? There's a lot of people looking for minimum-wage jobs. If a woman gets knocked up and there's a law in place that gives everyone free contraceptives, do you honestly believe that companies and insurance companies won't use that law to their advantage and state that "It's your own fault for getting pregnant", or, if there's free abortions too, "too bad, abortion or no job"? Having a woman on maternal leave is already costly to employers, and if abortions or contraceptives would be free, they have that on their side, too. Women are in a bad position on the job market as it is because of the potential of maternity leave, this could put them in an even worse position. Yes yes, I know, it's illegal to fire someone for getting pregnant, but it's not like it's never happened before, and with a law like this in place they even have a reason for it.

Even though I definitely do not agree, there's also the people who'd have their rights infringed upon because the government wants them to use contraceptives or abortion. It could potentially put a lot of women in an even worse situation than they are in now job-wise.

What should be free, on the other hand, is treatments for STI's, and a wider encouragement to get yourself checked in order to prevent the spread of STI's.

I don't know if it's that your view of the world is so off-kilter or what, but I question the sanity of someone who thinks a business or the government is going to tell a woman to get an abortion or be fired.

Your idea is built around the view that they only care about the most cost effective option. However there are plenty of studies that look at the effect of having a child on the career success of women (specifically, studies that have shown how women are less likely to complete graduate programs (med school, law school, graduate school, etc) if they have a kid (and similar results in academia in regard to publishing)) and from a purely cost effective perspective, paying for an abortion, or even providing contraception would be cheaper, but you don't see that occurring now.

[Meresgi]

ITT: A man trying to tell women how to handle their vaginas and what goes in/out of them.

Hey now, those men are also making sure to pass laws allowing ED pills and penis pumps. If they didn't try to pass laws on women it would be discrimination!

[Aksannyi]

Hey now, those men are also making sure to pass laws allowing ED pills and penis pumps. If they didn't try to pass laws on women it would be discrimination!

I know this is sarcasm, but it's not like ED or having a small dick is getting men paid less, or promoted less often.